Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I've learned from OUCH and others on this forum that sadly for some there’s no real desire for you to learn or rightly divide Scripture. .

Engaging with you is pointless because you dont communicate at an honest level. You communicate through practiced, specious methods and techniques, and come across as having an agenda for which you are willing to violate all the norms of decent, honest, normal human communication in order to gain the pre-eminence. I don't think humility is even a word in your vocabulary. When you try to act humble and accommodating it sounds as fake as AI.

 

[LightBearer316]

I see this all the time. Folks will isolate a pet verse or even a handful of few pet verses, build doctrine on those verses then try to force the rest of scripture to "conform" to their preconceived beliefs surrounding their pet verses. Such folks (who are typically members of false religions and cults) are more interested in accommodating their preconceived beliefs and biased church doctrine at all costs than they are in properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine.

Brother, I agree that we must never build doctrine on isolated verses — that’s exactly why Scripture commands us to compare “spiritual things with spiritual” (1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV).

The Bible interprets itself when we let it speak as a unified whole:

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”​

— 2 Peter 1:20 KJV​

​

The danger isn’t just having “pet verses,” but refusing to harmonize the ones that challenge our traditions or denominational lenses. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for the same issue:

“Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.”​

— Matthew 15:6 KJV​

​

So my goal isn’t to force Scripture to fit a system — it’s to let the whole counsel of God form the system (Acts 20:27 KJV). The Word defines truth, not the other way around.

Grace and Peace.

 

[Wansvic]

Disqualified from being a teacher and apostle of Jesus Christ.

NT:96
<START GREEK>a)do/kimo$
<END GREEK> adokimos (ad-ok'-ee-mos); from NT:1 (as a negative particle) and NT:1384; unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):


KJV - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[studier]

Um… yeah, okay — thanks...

Quite the response.

Linked comment

 

[LightBearer316]

Engaging with you is pointless because you dont communicate at an honest level. You communicate through practiced, specious methods and techniques, and come across as having an agenda for which you are willing to violate all the norms of decent, honest, normal human communication in order to gain the pre-eminence. I don't think humility is even a word in your vocabulary. When you try to act humble and accommodating it sounds as fake as AI.

When the discussion turns from Scripture to personal attacks, it usually means the arguments have run out.

I’m not here to “gain pre-eminence” — I’m here to search the Scriptures (Acts 17:11 KJV) and reason together through the Word (Isaiah 1:18 KJV). If you choose to see humility as “fake,” that’s between you and the Lord, but I’ll continue striving to respond with “meekness and fear” as 1 Peter 3:15 commands.

You may call names or question motives, but that doesn’t change the text of Scripture or the truth it contains. I’ll stay focused there — where the discussion should have been all along.

Grace and Peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

I see this all the time. Folks will isolate a pet verse or even a handful of few pet verses, build doctrine on those verses then try to force the rest of scripture to "conform" to their preconceived beliefs surrounding their pet verses. Such folks (who are typically members of false religions and cults) are more interested in accommodating their preconceived beliefs and biased church doctrine at all costs than they are in properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine.

It’s always the same few voices — no matter how much Scripture you show or how carefully you walk through the context, they circle right back to the same unsound theology. It’s never built on the whole of Scripture, just a handful of verses here or there, lifted out of context to prop up a position.

And when the text doesn’t support them, the personal attacks start. At this point, it honestly feels like some are more interested in disruption than discussion — almost like they’re getting paid to stir division on the forum.

Grace and Peace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

When the discussion turns from Scripture to personal attacks, it usually means the arguments have run out.

I’m not here to “gain pre-eminence” — I’m here to search the Scriptures (Acts 17:11 KJV) and reason together through the Word (Isaiah 1:18 KJV). If you choose to see humility as “fake,” that’s between you and the Lord, but I’ll continue striving to respond with “meekness and fear” as 1 Peter 3:15 commands.

You may call names or question motives, but that doesn’t change the text of Scripture or the truth it contains. I’ll stay focused there — where the discussion should have been all along.

Grace and Peace.

Like studier mentioned, you need to direct your attention inward. You are unamenable to correction and produce some pretty wicked fruit in order to avoid having to deal with that.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It’s always the same few voices — no matter how much Scripture you show or how carefully you walk through the context, they circle right back to the same unsound theology. It’s never built on the whole of Scripture, just a handful of verses here or there, lifted out of context to prop up a position.

And when the text doesn’t support them, the personal attacks start. At this point, it honestly feels like some are more interested in disruption than discussion — almost like they’re getting paid to stir division on the forum.

Grace and Peace.

You keep pointing the finger outward rather than inward. Until you learn to stop doing that you will never grow

 

[LightBearer316]

You keep pointing the finger outward rather than inward. Until you learn to stop doing that you will never grow

Self-examination is absolutely biblical — and I do it often. “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV). But honest reflection doesn’t mean ignoring patterns that keep reappearing in these discussions.

Pointing out repeated misuse of Scripture or constant personal attacks isn’t “finger-pointing”; it’s discernment. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV).

I’ll keep checking my own heart, but I’ll also keep testing doctrine against the Word, because that’s how real growth happens.

Grace and Peace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Self-examination is absolutely biblical — and I do it often. “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV). But honest reflection doesn’t mean ignoring patterns that keep reappearing in these discussions.

Pointing out repeated misuse of Scripture or constant personal attacks isn’t “finger-pointing”; it’s discernment. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV).

I’ll keep checking my own heart, but I’ll also keep testing doctrine against the Word, because that’s how real growth happens.

Grace and Peace.

Even now you had to justify yourself. Let it go. You're not that important

 

[LightBearer316]

Even now you had to justify yourself. Let it go. You're not that important

I’m not trying to prove my importance; I’m simply standing for truth and clarity. The goal isn’t self-justification; it’s to keep the conversation rooted in Scripture instead of personal remarks.

“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.” — Philippians 2:3 (KJV)

I’ll leave it there, and let the Word speak for itself.

Grace and Peace.

 

[Wansvic]

@studier ...
For the babes in Christ, this is how OUCH and his ilk operate:
Shifting the foundation
...

You are refusing to accept what scripture reveals about the foundation. Hebrews 6:1-2 reveals faith, repentance, and baptism are all part of the foundation. This parallels what was first revealed at Pentecost. (Acts 2:4-42)

Everyone is required to lay the foundation upon the rock; the rock, of course, being Jesus. This is revealed in the Luke 6:46-49. (see below) In Matthew's rendering, Jesus tells those who believed in Him that He never knew them. Immediately afterward, He explains that those who hear His sayings (foundational teachings) and DO them are the wise builders. The proper building of a house starts with it's foundation being laid on something; in this case sand or rock. (Matthew 7:23-27)

Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."


Matt 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:21-27
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

 

[Wansvic]

You’re confusing obedience after faith with the cause of salvation. Let’s go point-by-point with Scripture:
Baptism as a Public Witness of Faith
Romans 6:3-4 KJV —
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead… even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Paul shows baptism pictures what already happened spiritually — death to sin and new life through Christ. It’s a testimony, not the transaction.

Acts 8:36-37 KJV
The Ethiopian eunuch said, “What doth hinder me to be baptized?”
Philip answered, “If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.”
Only after he confessed faith did Philip baptize him.
That’s a public confession of an inward faith — exactly what baptism symbolizes.

Salvation Comes Before the Water
Acts 10:43-48 KJV
Peter preached, “Whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
While he yet spake, “the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard.”
Then Peter said, “Can any man forbid water…?”

They received the Spirit (salvation) before touching the water.
That’s the biblical order: faith --> Spirit --> baptism, not the reverse.

Forgiveness Comes Through Christ’s Blood, Not Water
Ephesians 1:7 KJV
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.”
1 John 1:7 KJV
“The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

Water never atoned for a single soul; the blood did.
Baptism proclaims that truth outwardly.

Why We’re Baptized
Jesus commanded it as part of discipleship (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV).
We obey because we’re His, not to become His.
It’s the believer’s first act of obedience — a sign of identification with Christ, just as circumcision was a sign of the covenant (Romans 4:11 KJV).

Abraham believed first, then received the sign.
Same order.

• Faith unites us to Christ (Galatians 3:26-27 KJV).
• Baptism testifies to that union.
• The gospel saves; baptism shows it.

Grace and peace — keep everything measured by the Word, not accusation or emotion.

Again you misquote Acts 10:43. And what it actually reveals cooresponds to Peter's command in Acts 10:47-48. Note the connection between the name of Jesus and remission of sin presented in Acts 2:38:

"...through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43

"...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins,..." Acts 2:38

 

[John146]

NT:96
<START GREEK>a)do/kimo$
<END GREEK> adokimos (ad-ok'-ee-mos); from NT:1 (as a negative particle) and NT:1384; unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):


KJV - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Nonetheless, not a loss of salvation.

 

[studier]

You are refusing to accept what scripture reveals about the foundation. Hebrews 6:1-2 reveals faith, repentance, and baptism are all part of the foundation. This parallels what was first revealed at Pentecost. (Acts 2:4-42)

Everyone is required to lay the foundation upon the rock; the rock, of course, being Jesus. This is revealed in the Luke 6:46-49. (see below) In Matthew's rendering, Jesus tells those who believed in Him that He never knew them. Immediately afterward, He explains that those who hear His sayings (foundational teachings) and DO them are the wise builders. The proper building of a house starts with it's foundation being laid on something; in this case sand or rock. (Matthew 7:23-27)

Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."


Matt 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:21-27
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

I don't know why my identity was at the top of that post you quoted. I can't see that it was even to me.

A few observations about your post:

• Your reference to Luke6:46-49 was a good foundational one. It is only those who obey Him who truly have faith in Him which should help inform us that faith & obedience are functionally equivalent.
• Your reference to Heb6:1-2 with the phrase "repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God" should also help inform us about faith/obedience and works.
  • Those 2 phrases are parallelism. One cannot be doing dead works and be in faith toward God. Repentance from dead works in essence is faith toward God.
  • The writer of Hebrews doesn't share this overblown faith-alone nonsense. His language per him is foundational doctrine - the "elementaries".
  • Intrinsic to genuine faith are obedience and work (and other facets). Up until the point where we actually come to genuine faith and are newly created for good works, while yet in unbelief which is disobedience (Heb3:18-19; Rom10:16) we are doing dead works. There's really no way for us to do any merit-worthy works for salvation while in unbelief/disobedience.
  • At the point of genuine faith/obedience, we transition into the ability in Christ in Spirit to do good works which are intrinsic to our genuine faith-obedience.
• There's more, but good enough for now.

 

[LightBearer316]

John MacArthur on Pentecostal Oneness Heresies about the Trinity

 

[lrs68]

Brother, I understand — but what “man says” isn’t the issue; it’s what Scripture actually reveals in full.

You say you’ve only stated what the Bible says — and yet the Bible itself draws distinctions that can’t be explained away as mere “titles” or “modes.”

Jesus spoke to the Father (John 17:1 KJV).
The Father loved the Son before the foundation of the world (John 17:24 KJV).
The Spirit was sent by the Father in the Son’s name (John 14:26 KJV).

That’s not human interpretation — that’s divine revelation.
It’s not man explaining God — it’s God revealing Himself as He truly is.

Like the Bereans in Acts 17:11 (KJV), I’d simply encourage all of us to “search the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Truth never fears examination.

Grace and Peace.

The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and the WORD became flesh.

The WORD made flesh said the Father dwelt inside Him and doing the works we see Jesus do.

That's just Bible.

I'm not arguing that God is not triune. I am saying the modern definition of Trinity doesn't match the 325 AD version.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

John MacArthur on Pentecostal Oneness Heresies about the Trinity

He uses the classic mischaracterization of labeling rejection of the trinity doctrine of 3 persons as modalism. Some people don't accept the 3-person explanation as adequate, nor do they accept modalism as a being true. Some think God is one being with 3 eternal characteristics, like body, soul and spirit, that are always existent and not different expressions that are turned on and off depending on the circumstance. The father always exists, the spirit always exists and the word/son always exists, and the 3 are unique and independent, but the 3 are one

 

[LightBearer316]

He uses the classic mischaracterization of labeling rejection of the trinity doctrine of 3 persons as modalism. Some people don't accept the 3-person explanation as adequate, nor do they accept modalism as a being true. Some think God is one being with 3 eternal characteristics, like body, soul and spirit, that are always existent and not different expressions that are turned on and off depending on the circumstance. The father always exists, the spirit always exists and the word/son always exists, and the 3 are unique and independent, but the 3 are one

The response from ChristRoseFromTheDead actually reflects a very common confusion; trying to sound balanced between “Trinity” and “Modalism,” but ending up describing something that doesn’t quite fit either biblical or historic Christian teaching.

You’re trying to express the mystery of God’s nature sincerely. But what you described; one being with “three eternal characteristics” like body, soul, and spirit; still misses what Scripture and historic Christianity teach.

The Bible doesn’t say God has parts or characteristics that function as Father, Son, and Spirit. It says these are three distinct persons (not three bodies or modes) who share the one divine essence.

• The Father loves the Son (John 17:24 KJV).
• The Son prays to the Father (John 17:1 KJV).
• The Spirit intercedes and teaches (Romans 8:26; John 14:26 KJV).

Those are not “characteristics” of one person — they are real relationships within the one true God.

The “body, soul, and spirit” analogy sounds appealing, but it’s actually closer to Modalism with extra steps, because it turns the persons of the Godhead into functions or aspects of a single person rather than co-equal, co-eternal persons in fellowship.

What Scripture reveals is deeper:

“There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” — 1 John 5:7 KJV​

That’s not three gods, nor one person with three faces — but one divine Being eternally existing as three distinct Persons, perfectly united in essence and purpose.

Grace and Peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[LightBearer316]

The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and the WORD became flesh.

The WORD made flesh said the Father dwelt inside Him and doing the works we see Jesus do.

That's just Bible.

I'm not arguing that God is not triune. I am saying the modern definition of Trinity doesn't match the 325 AD version.

You are trying to sound affirming (“I’m not denying the triune nature”) of God while undermining the orthodox definition of triune nature of God by claiming the “modern definition” differs from the 325 AD Nicene one.

I appreciate that you affirm God’s triune nature — that’s essential. But the idea that the modern definition of the Trinity differs from the 325 AD version isn’t really accurate. The Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) affirmed what Scripture already revealed — not a new concept, but a clear defense against confusion.

From Genesis to Revelation, God reveals Himself as one Being (Deut 6:4 KJV) who eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19 KJV).

• The Father is not the Son.
• The Son is not the Spirit.
• Yet each is fully and equally God.

The Nicene Creed simply expressed what the apostles already believed — that the Son is “of one substance with the Father.” That truth hasn’t changed. What has changed are the redefinitions by men who want to soften or reword it.

Jesus didn’t say, “The Father inside Me is Me.” He said, “The Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works” (John 14:10 KJV) — showing personal distinction, not separation.

The Word became flesh — not the Father, not the Spirit — but the Son, sent by the Father and anointed by the Spirit. That’s still just Bible.

Grace and Peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”