I'm trying the cup of warm milk with some sugar in it trick.Sorry I responded to the wrong post I haven't been able to sleep tonight
I'm trying the cup of warm milk with some sugar in it trick.Sorry I responded to the wrong post I haven't been able to sleep tonight
Although the idea that salvation can not be lost would be preferred, personally, I do not believe that's the case. There are scriptures that indicate otherwise. One's such as, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. What is there to fear if salvation is one and done; It is impossible to restore those who have fallen away. Heb.6:4-6; Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Rev. 2:5; He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Rev. 2:7Nonetheless, not a loss of salvation.
Sorry, the reply was to post 467.I don't know why my identity was at the top of that post you quoted. I can't see that it was even to me.
A few observations about your post:
- Your reference to Luke6:46-49 was a good foundational one. It is only those who obey Him who truly have faith in Him which should help inform us that faith & obedience are functionally equivalent.
- Your reference to Heb6:1-2 with the phrase "repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God" should also help inform us about faith/obedience and works.
- Those 2 phrases are parallelism. One cannot be doing dead works and be in faith toward God. Repentance from dead works in essence is faith toward God.
- The writer of Hebrews doesn't share this overblown faith-alone nonsense. His language per him is foundational doctrine - the "elementaries".
- Intrinsic to genuine faith are obedience and work (and other facets). Up until the point where we actually come to genuine faith and are newly created for good works, while yet in unbelief which is disobedience (Heb3:18-19; Rom10:16) we are doing dead works. There's really no way for us to do any merit-worthy works for salvation while in unbelief/disobedience.
- At the point of genuine faith/obedience, we transition into the ability in Christ in Spirit to do good works which are intrinsic to our genuine faith-obedience.
- There's more, but good enough for now.
Scripture explanation:The response from ChristRoseFromTheDead actually reflects a very common confusion; trying to sound balanced between “Trinity” and “Modalism,” but ending up describing something that doesn’t quite fit either biblical or historic Christian teaching.
You’re trying to express the mystery of God’s nature sincerely. But what you described; one being with “three eternal characteristics” like body, soul, and spirit; still misses what Scripture and historic Christianity teach.
The Bible doesn’t say God has parts or characteristics that function as Father, Son, and Spirit. It says these are three distinct persons (not three bodies or modes) who share the one divine essence.
Those are not “characteristics” of one person — they are real relationships within the one true God.
- The Father loves the Son (John 17:24 KJV).
- The Son prays to the Father (John 17:1 KJV).
- The Spirit intercedes and teaches (Romans 8:26; John 14:26 KJV).
The “body, soul, and spirit” analogy sounds appealing, but it’s actually closer to Modalism with extra steps, because it turns the persons of the Godhead into functions or aspects of a single person rather than co-equal, co-eternal persons in fellowship.
What Scripture reveals is deeper:
“There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” — 1 John 5:7 KJV
That’s not three gods, nor one person with three faces — but one divine Being eternally existing as three distinct Persons, perfectly united in essence and purpose.
Grace and Peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
What is the name? (Matt. 28:19) The apostles knew as revealed by their actions. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)I understand, in one sense, your description of a human being having body, soul, and spirit is accurate ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV). But that analogy applies only to created beings, not to the Creator Himself.
A man is a finite creature made up of parts that together form one person. God, however, is not composed of parts or divisions. He is simple (undivided) in essence and tri-personal in being.
“God is a Spirit” — John 4:24 KJV — not a composite of body, soul, and spirit.
So while the human structure can help us grasp certain truths about unity, it breaks down when applied to the infinite God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not components or faculties within one divine person — they are distinct Persons, eternally existing in perfect unity and fellowship (John 17:24 KJV; Matthew 28:19 KJV).
Using human composition as a model for the Godhead inevitably reduces God to the level of His creation, which Scripture never does.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
Grace and Peace.
There is not a single instance where water baptism was administered using the phrase in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Why? The apostles knew obedience to Jesus' command required they use His name. See every detailed account of water baptism; Acts 2:38-42, 8:12-18, 10:47-48, 19:1-7, 22:16....
Baptism in Jesus’ Name only.
They reject baptism “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19 KJV) and insist that the true formula is baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38 KJV).
...
Regardless of what "church fathers" say about the topic. The word of God states obedience to the command of water baptism in the name of Jesus results in one's sin being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)Even several early church fathers made clear distinctions between the symbolic act of baptism and the saving reality it represents.
John Chrysostom (4th century) wrote,
“It is not the water that makes one pure, but the change of life that purifies the soul.”(Homilies on John, 25:2)
Likewise, Clement of Alexandria taught that believers “are washed from sins not by the physical water, but by the spiritual Word.” (Paedagogus 1.6)
Even where they held baptism in high esteem, these men consistently pointed back to faith and repentance as the true means by which one receives grace. The outward washing simply testified to the inner cleansing already wrought by the Holy Spirit (cf. Titus 3:5).
So from Scripture to early Christian testimony, the pattern is consistent:
Faith first — baptism follows.
Grace and peace
Through faith.At the end of the day, the issue isn’t grammar, ritual, or tradition — it’s the gospel itself.
Scripture is unmistakably consistent: salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV). Baptism, while deeply important and commanded, is the public confession of that inward faith — not the cause of forgiveness but the confirmation of it.
The Greek εἰς (eis) in Acts 2:38 can naturally carry a causal sense — “because of” or “in view of” — just as in Matthew 12:41. The crowd in Acts 2 had already been “pricked in their heart” (v.37), showing repentance before baptism. Their obedience was faith in action, not faith in water.
Throughout the New Testament we see the same pattern repeated:
Early church fathers like Chrysostom and Clement affirmed that the outward washing symbolized an inward change already wrought by the Word and Spirit. The later development of baptismal regeneration reflected growing ritualism, not apostolic doctrine.
- Belief first, then baptism (Acts 10:43–48; Acts 16:31–33; Galatians 3:26–27).
- Faith justifies, works testify (Romans 4:3–5; James 2:24).
- The Spirit regenerates, not ritual (Titus 3:5).
The harmony of Scripture stands:
“The just shall live by faith.” — Romans 1:17 KJV“Whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43 KJV
So yes — baptism is precious, but Christ alone saves.
Faith is the root; obedience is the fruit.
The water testifies, but the blood redeems.
Grace and peace in Him who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.
Breaking it up into short, titled sections makes it far easier to read and quote in a forum thread. Don't thank me I couldn't sleep tonight.
Your argument is one based on "might and maybes". With this line of reasoning nothing in the Bible would be safe.Appreciate your passion, brother, but the lexical range of εἰς (eis) is broader than you’re acknowledging.
While its primary sense is “into” or “unto,” Greek lexicons (including BDAG, Thayer, and Robertson’s Word Pictures) all note that context can shift its meaning to “because of,” “with reference to,” or “in view of.”
For instance, Matthew 12:41 — “They repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah” — clearly uses eis in a causal or resultant sense. They didn’t repent in order to get Jonah’s preaching; they repented because of it. The same construction appears in Matthew 3:11, where John baptized eis metanoian (“unto repentance”), which doesn’t mean people were baptized to obtain repentance, but because they had repented.
So in Acts 2:38, “be baptized eis the remission of sins” can naturally mean “on account of” or “in view of” forgiveness — consistent with the many passages that make faith, not baptism, the instrument of justification (cf. Acts 10:43; Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8–9).
Even Greek grammarians like A.T. Robertson (in Word Pictures in the New Testament) and Nigel Turner (Grammatical Insights into the New Testament) acknowledge this permissible causal nuance. It’s not theology forcing the text — it’s recognizing that prepositions flex according to usage.
Context is key: Peter’s audience had already been “pricked in their heart” (Acts 2:37). Their repentance preceded baptism. Thus, the baptism was the outward response to an inward reality, not the means of obtaining it.
Grace and peace
Appreciate your passion, brother, but the lexical range of εἰς (eis) is broader than you’re acknowledging.
While its primary sense is “into” or “unto,” Greek lexicons (including BDAG, Thayer, and Robertson’s Word Pictures) all note that context can shift its meaning to “because of,” “with reference to,” or “in view of.”
For instance, Matthew 12:41 — “They repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah” — clearly uses eis in a causal or resultant sense. They didn’t repent in order to get Jonah’s preaching; they repented because of it. The same construction appears in Matthew 3:11, where John baptized eis metanoian (“unto repentance”), which doesn’t mean people were baptized to obtain repentance, but because they had repented.
So in Acts 2:38, “be baptized eis the remission of sins” can naturally mean “on account of” or “in view of” forgiveness — consistent with the many passages that make faith, not baptism, the instrument of justification (cf. Acts 10:43; Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8–9).
Even Greek grammarians like A.T. Robertson (in Word Pictures in the New Testament) and Nigel Turner (Grammatical Insights into the New Testament) acknowledge this permissible causal nuance. It’s not theology forcing the text — it’s recognizing that prepositions flex according to usage.
Context is key: Peter’s audience had already been “pricked in their heart” (Acts 2:37). Their repentance preceded baptism. Thus, the baptism was the outward response to an inward reality, not the means of obtaining it.
Grace and peace
This is bogus.
There are no translations of the Bible that uses eis to mean "because of". None, not one. Regardless of the time of publication, old or new.
There are no translations of the Bible in any language that uses eis to mean "because of". None, not one. Regardless of the language.
The notion of eis meaning "because of" is a long discredited attempt to prop up Faith Alone Regeneration Theology.
Compare Acts 2:38 to Luke 5:4
Both are written by the same person and use the same verbiage pattern.
Do you really believe that Peter cast his net "because of" the large catch of fish he already had?
There is no reason to believe that either of these verses means "because of", unless your theology demands it.
Although the idea that salvation can not be lost would be preferred, personally, I do not believe that's the case. There are scriptures that indicate otherwise. One's such as, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. What is there to fear if salvation is one and done; It is impossible to restore those who have fallen away. Heb.6:4-6; Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Rev. 2:5; He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Rev. 2:7
The parables of the ten foolish and ten wise virgins, and the unprofitable servant reveal the reality as well. Matt. 25
Pretty sure most versions do for Mark 1:38.This is bogus.
There are no translations of the Bible that uses eis to mean "because of". None, not one. Regardless of the time of publication, old or new.
There are no translations of the Bible in any language that uses eis to mean "because of". None, not one. Regardless of the language.
The notion of eis meaning "because of" is a long discredited attempt to prop up Faith Alone Regeneration Theology.
Compare Acts 2:38 to Luke 5:4
Both are written by the same person and use the same verbiage pattern.
Do you really believe that Peter cast his net "because of" the large catch of fish he already had?
There is no reason to believe that either of these verses means "because of", unless your theology demands it.
Sorry, the reply was to post 467.
Scripture explanation:
"In Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9-12). This scripture reveals Jesus is not a separate person in the Godhead. But rather the Godhead dwells in Jesus.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (1 Tim. 3:16).
Note, Jesus said He is the root AND the offspring of David. This reveals His dual nature of being both divine and human. As the root, He created David and as the offspring He was a human descendant of David. (Rev. 22:16)
Lastly, the scripture you yourself reference indicates the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost ARE one. (1 John 5:7) Confirming once again that IN Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead. (Col 2:9)
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: Deut. 6:4
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: Isa. 45:5
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. Isa. 43:11
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another. Isa. 42:8
Pretty sure most versions do for Mark 1:38.
Yeah, "for that is why i came out" (ESV), most translations have "for", which the context demonstrates means "because". "in order to receive" or "into" don't fit the context.Correct verse?
Your argument is one based on "might and maybes". With this line of reasoning nothing in the Bible would be safe.
There are 1000's of Bible translations and all of them use eis in the future tense (for, so that) and never because of.
For every one of your "examples" of why eis should be taken as "because of" I will cite the thousands of Biblical scholars who put their reputations on the line and do not use "because of" in Acts 2:38.
All words can have different meanings but a theology cannot be based on "well maybe".
Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is a theology without an example. A theology based on inserting a definitive into verses i.e. alone or only and then using the altered verse to negate earlier passages.
This is not theology this is chaos.
In other words, you cannot alter Eph. 2:8-9 by shoehorning "alone" into the passage and making the verse an all-encompassing phrase that is used to explain away earlier texts.
I have to report back that it worked.I'm trying the cup of warm milk with some sugar in it trick.