Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[NightTwister]

No need to wonder why so many different denomanions, which some are leading people to Hell with them.

Care to name a few?

 

[LightBearer316]

Ouch said: JESUS can do what HE wishes, LOOK IN ACTS 2,8 AND 19 they were baptized first!!!!

You’re absolutely right, brother — Jesus can do what He wishes. And that’s exactly the point. The book of Acts shows different orders of experience because God was demonstrating His sovereignty, not establishing baptism as the cause of salvation.

• In Acts 2, they repented and believed, then were baptized.
• In Acts 8, the Samaritans were baptized first, then later received the Holy Ghost when Peter and John laid hands on them.
• In Acts 10, Cornelius’ household received the Holy Ghost before baptism (Acts 10:44–47 KJV).
• In Acts 19, they believed, were re-baptized, and then received the Holy Ghost by Paul’s hands.

That variety shows baptism isn’t the mechanism of salvation — the Spirit moves as He wills:

“The wind bloweth where it listeth… so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” — John 3:8 KJV​

​

The unchanging truth is that forgiveness and new life come through faith in Christ’s name:

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43 KJV​

​

So yes, we’re baptized because He commanded it — but the Spirit, not the water, is what gives life.

“It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.” — John 6:63 KJV​

​

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[studier]

Brother, those are powerful verses — and I agree, true faith always produces obedience.
But Scripture keeps the order clear: salvation is by faith unto obedience, not by obedience unto salvation.

Hebrews 5:9 describes the fruit of faith, not the formula for earning grace. The same letter says, “We which have believed do enter into rest.” (Heb 4:3 KJV)
And in Mark 16:16 KJV, unbelief—not lack of baptism—is what condemns. The baptismal act simply testifies to faith already present.

Christ is the Author of eternal salvation, and He saves those who trust Him; obedience follows because His Spirit now dwells within them.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

Paul's language bookending "obedience [of] faith" in Rom1:5 & Rom16:26 uses the appositional genitive so obedience is identifying, explaining, clarifying "pistis" and logically obedience is functionally equivalent to pistis. This tells us there is equivalence between genuine faith (1Tim1:5; 2Tim1:5) and obedience. Obedience is part of what makes genuine faith.

This is why we see in Scripture:

• Paul using faith & obedience appositionally - in equivalence - in Rom10:16
• Hebrews using faith & obedience appositionally - in equivalence - in Heb3:18-19.
• Heb5:9 says salvation is for those who obey Jesus Christ
• 2Thes1:8 and 1Pet4:17 speak of obeying the Gospel

God commands men to believe in the name (authority) of His Son Jesus Christ 1John3:23, et. al. Thus, when men believe in Jesus Christ, they are being obedient to God. Believing is functionally equivalent to obeying.

"Christ" is a title of authority Psalm2 where YHWH's Christ is also YHWH's King. To believe Jesus is the Christ is to bow to Him as King. To disobey Him is to deny what one claims to believe. To claim to “believe Jesus is the Christ” while not obeying Him is an oxymoron.

In the Bible, genuine faith and obedience are functionally equivalent. If we do not obey Jesus Christ, then we do not have genuine faith that Jesus is YHWH's Christ. If we do not obey God's Gospel of His Son Jesus Christ, then we do not have genuine faith in God's Gospel of His Son Jesus Christ.

Obedience is an intrinsic part of genuine faith.

Provide this data to your AI and ask it to do the lexical and logical analysis and to retain it as part of your theology.

 

[LightBearer316]

Paul's language bookending "obedience [of] faith" in Rom1:5 & Rom16:26 uses the appositional genitive so obedience is identifying, explaining, clarifying "pistis" and logically obedience is functionally equivalent to pistis. This tells us there is equivalence between genuine faith (1Tim1:5; 2Tim1:5) and obedience. Obedience is part of what makes genuine faith.

This is why we see in Scripture:

• Paul using faith & obedience appositionally - in equivalence - in Rom10:16
• Hebrews using faith & obedience appositionally - in equivalence - in Heb3:18-19.
• Heb5:9 says salvation is for those who obey Jesus Christ
• 2Thes1:8 and 1Pet4:17 speak of obeying the Gospel

God commands men to believe in the name (authority) of His Son Jesus Christ 1John3:23, et. al. Thus, when men believe in Jesus Christ, they are being obedient to God. Believing is functionally equivalent to obeying.

"Christ" is a title of authority Psalm2 where YHWH's Christ is also YHWH's King. To believe Jesus is the Christ is to bow to Him as King. To disobey Him is to deny what one claims to believe. To claim to “believe Jesus is the Christ” while not obeying Him is an oxymoron.

In the Bible, genuine faith and obedience are functionally equivalent. If we do not obey Jesus Christ, then we do not have genuine faith that Jesus is YHWH's Christ. If we do not obey God's Gospel of His Son Jesus Christ, then we do not have genuine faith in God's Gospel of His Son Jesus Christ.

Obedience is an intrinsic part of genuine faith.

Brother, I appreciate the thought and the precision you bring to this — the connection between faith and obedience is indeed vital. But while they’re inseparable in genuine conversion, Scripture never treats them as identical or equivalent realities.

Paul’s phrase “obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5; 16:26 KJV) doesn’t make obedience and faith the same act — it shows their relationship. The genitive phrase (hypakoē pisteōs) is best understood as obedience that springs from faith, not obedience that equals faith. In other words, faith is the root, obedience is the fruit.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” — Romans 5:1 KJV
“By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.” — Romans 1:5 KJV

Paul never says we are justified by obedience but by faith. The obedience that follows is the evidence that our faith is real — exactly what James teaches:

“Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” — James 2:17 KJV

Even Hebrews 5:9 KJV — “He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” — agrees with this. That obedience isn’t a work we perform to earn salvation, but the response of a heart that truly believes. As Paul wrote:

“For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness.” — Romans 10:10 KJV

Yes — genuine faith obeys.
But obedience proves faith; it doesn’t produce justification.
Salvation begins with believing the Gospel (Mark 1:15 KJV), and obedience follows as the living evidence of that faith.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” — Ephesians 2:8 KJV

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[studier]

Brother, I appreciate the thought and the precision you bring to this — the connection between faith and obedience is indeed vital. But while they’re inseparable in genuine conversion, Scripture never treats them as identical or equivalent realities.

Paul’s phrase “obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5; 16:26 KJV) doesn’t make obedience and faith the same act — it shows their relationship. The genitive phrase (hypakoē pisteōs) is best understood as obedience that springs from faith, not obedience that equals faith. In other words, faith is the root, obedience is the fruit.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” — Romans 5:1 KJV
“By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.” — Romans 1:5 KJV

Paul never says we are justified by obedience but by faith. The obedience that follows is the evidence that our faith is real — exactly what James teaches:

“Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” — James 2:17 KJV

Even Hebrews 5:9 KJV — “He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” — agrees with this. That obedience isn’t a work we perform to earn salvation, but the response of a heart that truly believes. As Paul wrote:

“For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness.” — Romans 10:10 KJV

Yes — genuine faith obeys.
But obedience proves faith; it doesn’t produce justification.
Salvation begins with believing the Gospel (Mark 1:15 KJV), and obedience follows as the living evidence of that faith.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” — Ephesians 2:8 KJV

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

AI response to AI:

1. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 – Appositional Genitive

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”
• Appositional genitive: the second noun explains, identifies, or clarifies the first.
  • Translation: “obedience, which is faith” or “obedience that is faith in essence.”
  • This is different from the causal genitive (“obedience that comes from faith”) which LB cited.
• Implication: In God’s command, obedience is the same act as believing — functionally equivalent.
• Supportive texts: Romans 10:16 (“They did not all obey the gospel”) equates “obey” with believing the message.

2. Hebrews 3:18–19

• Unbelief is defined as disobedience to God’s word.
• Here, failure to believe = disobedience, showing functional equivalence between belief and obedience.
• NT authors frequently use this equivalence: John 3:36 — “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life.”

3. Hebrews 5:9; 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• Hebrews 5:9: “Salvation is for those who obey Him.”
• 1 Peter 4:17 & 2 Thess 1:8: Obeying the Gospel = the response expected of those who believe.
• These passages treat obedience not as external evidence, but as the scriptural description of the believer’s act.

4. Christ as King – Psalm 2

• “Christ” = God’s anointed King.
• To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge His authority.
• Logical consequence: Disobeying Him while claiming belief is self-contradictory — an oxymoron.
• Faith that is not obedience to Christ is not faith in the NT sense.

5. Functional Equivalence Defined

• Functional equivalence: two acts serve the same purpose in a given context.
• When God commands belief in Jesus Christ:
  • Command = believe
  • Response = believing = obeying
• Therefore, genuine faith in Christ = obedience to Him in the act of believing.

6. Where LB’s AI Misses

1. Appositional Genitive Ignored
   • LB reads hypakoē pisteōs causally (“obedience that springs from faith”) rather than appositionally (“obedience = faith”).
2. Corpus Evidence Overlooked
   • Romans 10:16, Heb 3:18–19, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Thess 1:8 — all treat belief and obedience as linguistically and logically equivalent.
3. Christology Not Integrated
   • Psalm 2 and the authority of Christ are not referenced; LB treats obedience as abstract evidence rather than intrinsic to believing the King.
4. Logical Implication Missed
   • Genuine faith requires obedience to Christ. LB treats obedience as secondary, not intrinsic.

7. Synthesis Statement

Lexically, grammatically, and logically, the NT presents obedience and genuine faith as functionally equivalent when the command is to believe in Christ.
The obedience inherent in faith is part of what makes it genuine.
Therefore, a claim to believe in Christ while refusing obedience is self-contradictory.
LB’s AI response, while doctrinally standard, sidesteps the appositional/genitive evidence and functional equivalence logic.​

 

[LightBearer316]

AI response to AI:

1. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 – Appositional Genitive

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”
• Appositional genitive: the second noun explains, identifies, or clarifies the first.
  • Translation: “obedience, which is faith” or “obedience that is faith in essence.”
  • This is different from the causal genitive (“obedience that comes from faith”) which LB cited.
• Implication: In God’s command, obedience is the same act as believing — functionally equivalent.
• Supportive texts: Romans 10:16 (“They did not all obey the gospel”) equates “obey” with believing the message.

2. Hebrews 3:18–19

• Unbelief is defined as disobedience to God’s word.
• Here, failure to believe = disobedience, showing functional equivalence between belief and obedience.
• NT authors frequently use this equivalence: John 3:36 — “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life.”

3. Hebrews 5:9; 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• Hebrews 5:9: “Salvation is for those who obey Him.”
• 1 Peter 4:17 & 2 Thess 1:8: Obeying the Gospel = the response expected of those who believe.
• These passages treat obedience not as external evidence, but as the scriptural description of the believer’s act.

4. Christ as King – Psalm 2

• “Christ” = God’s anointed King.
• To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge His authority.
• Logical consequence: Disobeying Him while claiming belief is self-contradictory — an oxymoron.
• Faith that is not obedience to Christ is not faith in the NT sense.

5. Functional Equivalence Defined

• Functional equivalence: two acts serve the same purpose in a given context.
• When God commands belief in Jesus Christ:
  • Command = believe
  • Response = believing = obeying
• Therefore, genuine faith in Christ = obedience to Him in the act of believing.

6. Where LB’s AI Misses

1. Appositional Genitive Ignored
   • LB reads hypakoē pisteōs causally (“obedience that springs from faith”) rather than appositionally (“obedience = faith”).
2. Corpus Evidence Overlooked
   • Romans 10:16, Heb 3:18–19, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Thess 1:8 — all treat belief and obedience as linguistically and logically equivalent.
3. Christology Not Integrated
   • Psalm 2 and the authority of Christ are not referenced; LB treats obedience as abstract evidence rather than intrinsic to believing the King.
4. Logical Implication Missed
   • Genuine faith requires obedience to Christ. LB treats obedience as secondary, not intrinsic.

7. Synthesis Statement

Lexically, grammatically, and logically, the NT presents obedience and genuine faith as functionally equivalent when the command is to believe in Christ.​

The obedience inherent in faith is part of what makes it genuine.​

Therefore, a claim to believe in Christ while refusing obedience is self-contradictory.​

LB’s AI response, while doctrinally standard, sidesteps the appositional/genitive evidence and functional equivalence logic.​

Brother, what you are attempting to do is disingenuous; no software “analysis” can determine authorship on a forum post. I write my own replies after prayer and study in the King James Bible.
Whether a sentence sounds polished or plain doesn’t matter — what matters is whether it’s true to Scripture.

“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” — John 17:17 KJV​

If what I wrote is wrong, show me from the Word. If it’s right, then labeling it “AI” doesn’t change that.
Let’s keep testing every claim by the Bible alone.


Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[LightBearer316]

AI response to AI:

1. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 – Appositional Genitive

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”
• Appositional genitive: the second noun explains, identifies, or clarifies the first.
  • Translation: “obedience, which is faith” or “obedience that is faith in essence.”
  • This is different from the causal genitive (“obedience that comes from faith”) which LB cited.
• Implication: In God’s command, obedience is the same act as believing — functionally equivalent.
• Supportive texts: Romans 10:16 (“They did not all obey the gospel”) equates “obey” with believing the message.

2. Hebrews 3:18–19

• Unbelief is defined as disobedience to God’s word.
• Here, failure to believe = disobedience, showing functional equivalence between belief and obedience.
• NT authors frequently use this equivalence: John 3:36 — “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life.”

3. Hebrews 5:9; 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• Hebrews 5:9: “Salvation is for those who obey Him.”
• 1 Peter 4:17 & 2 Thess 1:8: Obeying the Gospel = the response expected of those who believe.
• These passages treat obedience not as external evidence, but as the scriptural description of the believer’s act.

4. Christ as King – Psalm 2

• “Christ” = God’s anointed King.
• To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge His authority.
• Logical consequence: Disobeying Him while claiming belief is self-contradictory — an oxymoron.
• Faith that is not obedience to Christ is not faith in the NT sense.

5. Functional Equivalence Defined

• Functional equivalence: two acts serve the same purpose in a given context.
• When God commands belief in Jesus Christ:
  • Command = believe
  • Response = believing = obeying
• Therefore, genuine faith in Christ = obedience to Him in the act of believing.

6. Where LB’s AI Misses

1. Appositional Genitive Ignored
   • LB reads hypakoē pisteōs causally (“obedience that springs from faith”) rather than appositionally (“obedience = faith”).
2. Corpus Evidence Overlooked
   • Romans 10:16, Heb 3:18–19, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Thess 1:8 — all treat belief and obedience as linguistically and logically equivalent.
3. Christology Not Integrated
   • Psalm 2 and the authority of Christ are not referenced; LB treats obedience as abstract evidence rather than intrinsic to believing the King.
4. Logical Implication Missed
   • Genuine faith requires obedience to Christ. LB treats obedience as secondary, not intrinsic.

7. Synthesis Statement

Lexically, grammatically, and logically, the NT presents obedience and genuine faith as functionally equivalent when the command is to believe in Christ.​

The obedience inherent in faith is part of what makes it genuine.​

Therefore, a claim to believe in Christ while refusing obedience is self-contradictory.​

LB’s AI response, while doctrinally standard, sidesteps the appositional/genitive evidence and functional equivalence logic.​

Studier, it’s become clear that you’ve used multiple accounts to reinforce your own positions. I’ve determined this through sophisticated software analysis — at least, that’s how absurd your claim sounds when turned back around. See how ludicrous that even reads?

 

[FlyingDove]

OK, lets look at them so then you can answer my question.

"God does not pour out His Holy Ghost on the unforgiven (cf. Acts 15:8–9 “**purifying their hearts by faith” ; Eph 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with… the Holy Spirit”).
So the claim “no sins removed before v.48” contradicts v.43 (remission on believing) and v.44–47 (Spirit given prior to water)."

GOD HAS TO OBEY HIS OWN RULE BOOK.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

WHY DO YOU SAY THEIR SIN WERE REMOVED BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED, IF SO WHY WAS THEY COMMAMAND TO BE BAPTIZED????

JESUS can do what HE wishes, LOOK IN ACTS 2,8 AND 19 they were baptized first!!!!

Since Peter wasn't allowed to speak to the Greeks in those days HE WOULD NEVER HAVR BAPTIZED THEM IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM FIRST.

DON'T YOU GET IT, EPH WAS TO THE CHURCH'S WHO WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ALREADY, PAUL IS SPEAKING TO HIS CHRUCH.

SO IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR JESUS TO REMOVE THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED.

"Peter’s “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins” was preached to the very crowd that had rejected Messiah (Acts 2:36–37 KJV). In Luke’s own summary of the apostolic message, remission is preached “through his name” upon repentance/faith:
Luke 24:47 — “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name”
Acts 10:43 — “whosoever believeth… shall receive remission”
Acts 15:11 — “we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved”
The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name). That’s exactly what we see in Acts 10 and Acts 16 (jailer believes → baptized), and is what Peter himself later explains (Acts 15:7–11 KJV)."

YOU ADDED THIS AT THE END, "upon repentance/faith:"

It's not good to add or take away from HIS word, but you have to, to make you think you right.

"The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name)."

LIE FROM SATAN, YOU SEE HOW YOU CLAIM SOMETHING TO BE TRUE, AND NOW YOUR WORDING MAKES IT TRUE.

"3) “But Peter commanded baptism” (Acts 10:48 KJV)

Amen—and so do I. Christ also commanded the Supper (Luke 22:19), yet the Supper isn’t the cause of justification. A command can be essential obedience without being the instrument of pardon. Peter’s own order in Acts 10 is unmistakable: believe → receive remission & Spirit → be baptized."

PETER DIDN'T ORDER THEM NOTHING BUT TO BE BAPTIZED, HE WAS PREACHING TO THEM AND JESUS FILLED THEM WITH HOLY GHOST, MORE LIES.

WHO CARES WHAT ORDER WE NEED ALL THREE TO BE REBORN,

JESUS JOB IS TO FILL US, AS HE HAS NOT FILLED YOU YET, HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME?

"4) John 3 and the new birth

New birth is the Spirit’s work, received by faith:
John 3:6–8 — birth “of the Spirit”
John 3:14–16 — look to the crucified Christ and believe to have everlasting life.
Peter clarifies the “water” imagery elsewhere isn’t bath-water removing sin:
1 Peter 3:21 — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God… by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”"

SATAN ALSO ONLY USES A PART OF HIS WORD TO MAKE A POINT.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

MEANING, BAPTISM DOTH NOW SAVE US!!

Peter is explaining WATER DOES NOT WASH AWAY DIRT, when he says SAVES US is because it of good conscience that when we get baptized we are DYEING WITH HIM AND WILL BE RESURRECTED WITH HIM.


"Summary
Peter commands baptism (amen),
but Peter grounds remission in belief in Christ (Acts 10:43 KJV),
and God seals believers with the Spirit before water (Acts 10:44–47 KJV),
which Peter later interprets as hearts purified by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV)."

I'm sorry to tell you PETER DID NOT SET THE GROUND RULES FOR REMISSION OF SINS, JESUS DID AND IT'S IN BEING BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME. ALL OVER THE BOOK OF ACTS.

SO WHAT JESUS FILLED THEM FIRST, ACTS 8 AND 19 HE FILLED THEM AFTER.

Acts 15,
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter was in Judaea, they were speaking about the Gentiles being reborn, and Peter was telling them what happened,so what he says "purifying their hearts by faith"

THAT DOESN'T PROVE THAT IS WHEN THEIR SINS WERE REMOVED, BUT IT DOES PROVE IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED AND THEIR SINS WOULD NEVER BEEN REMOVED.


"Truth doesn’t fear examination. Let’s keep the verses open together instead of trading accusations. If Acts 10:43–47 KJV isn’t “sins remitted and Spirit given prior to water,” then Peter’s own explanation in Acts 15 has no force."

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM WHAT YOU CALL TRUE AND WHAT IS TRUE ARE TOO DIFFERENT THINGS.

AGAIN SO WHAT THEY GOT FILLED FIRST.

PETER KNOWS THE FOUNDATION, JESUS GAVE HIM THE KEYS TO HEAVEN, HE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES TO BE REBORN, READ ACTS 2:38-39 IN ACTS 10 HE DIDN'T LEAVE UNTIL THEY WERE.

IF IT WAS YOU IN ACTS 10 YOU WOULD HAVE LEFT THEM UNBORN, LEAVING OUT THE PART OF GETTING RID OF THEIR SINS.

Think of all of the lost people going to HELL not following HIS WORD.

NOW DO YOU FEEL BETTER ME GOING OVER YOUR THOUGHTS ONCE AGAIN.

Have you obeyed JESUS and have been baptized in HIS WONDERFUL NAME and since JESUS has not filled you with HIS HOLY GHOST.

People being reborn in the book of Acts.

Acts 2, received the the Holy Ghost and baptized later.
Acts 8, baptized and received the Holy Ghost days maybe weeks later.
Acts 10, received the Holy Ghost and baptized just after.
Acts 19, HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIVED????????? Were baptized and received the Holy Ghost when Paul laid hands on them.

IN ALL CASES, EVERYONE they were baptized in JESUS name and was filled with the HOLY GHOST IT DOES NOT MATTER TO JESUS WHICH ONE COMES FIRST, WHY DOES IT MATTER TO US?

JUST OBEY!!!

You like pointing fingers at other who do not follow HIS rule book, so

NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND OTHERS WHO DO NOT FOLLOW HIS WORD?

 

[LightBearer316]

AI response to AI:

1. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 – Appositional Genitive

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”
• Appositional genitive: the second noun explains, identifies, or clarifies the first.
  • Translation: “obedience, which is faith” or “obedience that is faith in essence.”
  • This is different from the causal genitive (“obedience that comes from faith”) which LB cited.
• Implication: In God’s command, obedience is the same act as believing — functionally equivalent.
• Supportive texts: Romans 10:16 (“They did not all obey the gospel”) equates “obey” with believing the message.

2. Hebrews 3:18–19

• Unbelief is defined as disobedience to God’s word.
• Here, failure to believe = disobedience, showing functional equivalence between belief and obedience.
• NT authors frequently use this equivalence: John 3:36 — “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life.”

3. Hebrews 5:9; 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• Hebrews 5:9: “Salvation is for those who obey Him.”
• 1 Peter 4:17 & 2 Thess 1:8: Obeying the Gospel = the response expected of those who believe.
• These passages treat obedience not as external evidence, but as the scriptural description of the believer’s act.

4. Christ as King – Psalm 2

• “Christ” = God’s anointed King.
• To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge His authority.
• Logical consequence: Disobeying Him while claiming belief is self-contradictory — an oxymoron.
• Faith that is not obedience to Christ is not faith in the NT sense.

5. Functional Equivalence Defined

• Functional equivalence: two acts serve the same purpose in a given context.
• When God commands belief in Jesus Christ:
  • Command = believe
  • Response = believing = obeying
• Therefore, genuine faith in Christ = obedience to Him in the act of believing.

6. Where LB’s AI Misses

1. Appositional Genitive Ignored
   • LB reads hypakoē pisteōs causally (“obedience that springs from faith”) rather than appositionally (“obedience = faith”).
2. Corpus Evidence Overlooked
   • Romans 10:16, Heb 3:18–19, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Thess 1:8 — all treat belief and obedience as linguistically and logically equivalent.
3. Christology Not Integrated
   • Psalm 2 and the authority of Christ are not referenced; LB treats obedience as abstract evidence rather than intrinsic to believing the King.
4. Logical Implication Missed
   • Genuine faith requires obedience to Christ. LB treats obedience as secondary, not intrinsic.

7. Synthesis Statement

Lexically, grammatically, and logically, the NT presents obedience and genuine faith as functionally equivalent when the command is to believe in Christ.​

The obedience inherent in faith is part of what makes it genuine.​

Therefore, a claim to believe in Christ while refusing obedience is self-contradictory.​

LB’s AI response, while doctrinally standard, sidesteps the appositional/genitive evidence and functional equivalence logic.​

Just add it to the pile of things I've been called on this forum... The list just keeps growing...

People have called or implied on this forum things like:

• “Satan” or demonic (direct accusation)
• “A wolf in sheep’s clothing” — remember that post with the AI-generated wolf picture wearing my username <-moderators had to get involved and removed it
• “Calvinist,” “hyper-Calvinist,” or “Reformed sympathizer” — used as labels to discredit my points
• “Sophist” and “casuist” — meaning someone who twists arguments or uses tricky reasoning
• “Dishonest” or “word-salad writer” — implying my responses were evasive or over-explained
• “Using AI” — a claim that your writing style or structure isn’t genuine. (just added to list)

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.”
— Ephesians 4:29

Grace and Peace

 

[FlyingDove]

Water Baptism vs Spiritual Baptism

Water baptism a commandment given by Jesus, Peter & others. It's a public proclamation of self denial, identifying with Jesus death, burial & resurrection, & belonging to Him as well. An outward physical expression of one's previous inner spiritual transformation.

Water Baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. It's a physical act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This event follows the eternal salvation sealing Holy Spirit baptism, performed by Christ alone. Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 2:38, 10:45, 11:16)

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear: He/John baptized with water & that Christ would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT.)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by """ONE SPIRIT""" are we """ALL""" """BAPTIZED""" into one body! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing eternally indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Col 2:
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(MY NOTE: ""IN Him"". Find Spiritual connections Jn 17:20,21,22,23.)

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(MY NOTE: KJV Dictionary Definition: Complete, 1.) Having no deficiency; perfect. And ye are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power. Col 2:10. The believer is made complete/perfect, by Faith ""IN Him"")

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(MY NOTE: OT circumcision covenant was a physical sign of belonging to God's chosen covenant people. Spiritual circumcision covenant is divine, ""made without hands"", internal ""IN Him/IN you"" & transformative. This Spiritual circumcision is performed by Christ. A covenantal break from the old order sin nature, it's success enabled by by Christ' Holy Spirit now dwelling ""IN you""!)

Spiritual baptism is the event where the believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit! Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

During Jesus time an engagement/BETROTHAL was a legally binding contract. Marking the start of the marriage covenant. To show commitment the groom paid a bride price (Mohar). Jesus/our Bridegroom paid the ultimate price (1 Cor 6:20, 7:23, Acts 20:28, Eph 1:14). His GIFT of the Forever indwelling Holy Spirit is the believers engagement ring.

SEALED
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us > PRESENT TENSE). Is God's good deposit/down payment)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(MY NOTE: God has > PAST TENSE given/DONE DEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(MY NOTE: God has given the believer > PAST TENSE/DONE DEAL. The EARNEST = DEPOSIT/PLEDGE/PROMISE/SEAL)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news of your salvation: you believed & were > PAST TENSE SEALED/DONE DEAL! With/by God's salvation sealing Holy Spirit promise)

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes. SEALS & FOREVER [Jn indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED until their next unrepentant sin? NO! SEALED until the day they receive their heavenly body. Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit, is Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for every believer. Jews received this "Promise" at the Acts 2 Pentecost, gentiles at Acts 10 Cornelius. And now any/every Jew of gentile that repents (from unbelief to belief) in Christ' death & resurrection. Is given/receives "IS SEALED" with the salvation sealing H/S. Promise)

Additional recourses:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Seal

(d) ownership and security, together with destination are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13, in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," not as AV, "after that ye believed;" the aorist participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;" so in 2 Corinthians 1:22 , where the Middle Voice intimates the special interest of the Sealer in His act; (e) authentication by the believer (by receiving the witness of the Son) of the fact that "God is true

(NY NOTE: The SEAL is a promise/sign/seal of Ownership & Security. Conveyed in Eph 1:13, in the metaphor of the "SEALING" of believer, by the gift of the Holy Spirit. Action upon believing/at the time of their regeneration, NOT after a lapse of time in their spiritual life)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14 Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Salvation

(2/b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Acts 4:12 , and upon confession of Him as Lord, Romans 10:10 ; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Romans 1:16 ; Ephesians 1:13 (see further under SAVE);
https://studybible.info/vines/Salvation

(MY NOTE: "ETERNAL DELIVERANCE GRANTED IMMEDIATELY" by God. To those who accept His conditions of repentance (from unbelief to belief) & faith in the Lord Jesus death & resurrection)

 

[LightBearer316]

Water Baptism vs Spiritual Baptism

Water baptism a commandment given by Jesus, Peter & others. It's a public proclamation of self denial, identifying with Jesus death, burial & resurrection, & belonging to Him as well. An outward physical expression of one's previous inner spiritual transformation.

Water Baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. It's a physical act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This event follows the eternal salvation sealing Holy Spirit baptism, performed by Christ alone. Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 2:38, 10:45, 11:16)

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear: He/John baptized with water & that Christ would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT.)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by """ONE SPIRIT""" are we """ALL""" """BAPTIZED""" into one body! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing eternally indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Col 2:
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(MY NOTE: ""IN Him"". Find Spiritual connections Jn 17:20,21,22,23.)

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(MY NOTE: KJV Dictionary Definition: Complete, 1.) Having no deficiency; perfect. And ye are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power. Col 2:10. The believer is made complete/perfect, by Faith ""IN Him"")

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(MY NOTE: OT circumcision covenant was a physical sign of belonging to God's chosen covenant people. Spiritual circumcision covenant is divine, ""made without hands"", internal ""IN Him/IN you"" & transformative. This Spiritual circumcision is performed by Christ. A covenantal break from the old order sin nature, it's success enabled by by Christ' Holy Spirit now dwelling ""IN you""!)

Spiritual baptism is the event where the believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit! Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

During Jesus time an engagement/BETROTHAL was a legally binding contract. Marking the start of the marriage covenant. To show commitment the groom paid a bride price (Mohar). Jesus/our Bridegroom paid the ultimate price (1 Cor 6:20, 7:23, Acts 20:28, Eph 1:14). His GIFT of the Forever indwelling Holy Spirit is the believers engagement ring.

SEALED
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us > PRESENT TENSE). Is God's good deposit/down payment)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(MY NOTE: God has > PAST TENSE given/DONE DEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(MY NOTE: God has given the believer > PAST TENSE/DONE DEAL. The EARNEST = DEPOSIT/PLEDGE/PROMISE/SEAL)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news of your salvation: you believed & were > PAST TENSE SEALED/DONE DEAL! With/by God's salvation sealing Holy Spirit promise)

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes. SEALS & FOREVER [Jn indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED until their next unrepentant sin? NO! SEALED until the day they receive their heavenly body. Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit, is Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for every believer. Jews received this "Promise" at the Acts 2 Pentecost, gentiles at Acts 10 Cornelius. And now any/every Jew of gentile that repents (from unbelief to belief) in Christ' death & resurrection. Is given/receives "IS SEALED" with the salvation sealing H/S. Promise)

Additional recourses:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Seal

(d) ownership and security, together with destination are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13, in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," not as AV, "after that ye believed;" the aorist participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;" so in 2 Corinthians 1:22 , where the Middle Voice intimates the special interest of the Sealer in His act; (e) authentication by the believer (by receiving the witness of the Son) of the fact that "God is true

(NY NOTE: The SEAL is a promise/sign/seal of Ownership & Security. Conveyed in Eph 1:13, in the metaphor of the "SEALING" of believer, by the gift of the Holy Spirit. Action upon believing/at the time of their regeneration, NOT after a lapse of time in their spiritual life)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14 Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Salvation

(2/b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Acts 4:12 , and upon confession of Him as Lord, Romans 10:10 ; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Romans 1:16 ; Ephesians 1:13 (see further under SAVE);
https://studybible.info/vines/Salvation

(MY NOTE: "ETERNAL DELIVERANCE GRANTED IMMEDIATELY" by God. To those who accept His conditions of repentance (from unbelief to belief) & faith in the Lord Jesus death & resurrection)

Just add it to the pile of things I've been called on this forum... The list just keeps growing...

People have called or implied on this forum things like:

• “Satan” or demonic (direct accusation)
• “A wolf in sheep’s clothing” — remember that post with the AI-generated wolf picture wearing my username <-moderators had to get involved and removed it
• “Calvinist,” “hyper-Calvinist,” or “Reformed sympathizer” — used as labels to discredit my points
• “Sophist” and “casuist” — meaning someone who twists arguments or uses tricky reasoning
• “Dishonest” or “word-salad writer” — implying my responses were evasive or over-explained
• “Using AI” — a claim that your writing style or structure isn’t genuine. (just added to list)

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.”
— Ephesians 4:29

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

Just add it to the pile of things I've been called on this forum... The list just keeps growing...

People have called or implied on this forum things like:

• “Satan” or demonic (direct accusation)
• “A wolf in sheep’s clothing” — remember that post with the AI-generated wolf picture wearing my username <-moderators had to get involved and removed it
• “Calvinist,” “hyper-Calvinist,” or “Reformed sympathizer” — used as labels to discredit my points
• “Sophist” and “casuist” — meaning someone who twists arguments or uses tricky reasoning
• “Dishonest” or “word-salad writer” — implying my responses were evasive or over-explained
• “Using AI” — a claim that your writing style or structure isn’t genuine. (just added to list)

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.”
— Ephesians 4:29

“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”​

— Matthew 5:11​

“If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you.”​

— 1 Peter 4:14​

“No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.”​

— Isaiah 54:17​

“For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.”​

— 1 Peter 2:19​

​

“The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?”
— Psalm 27:1​

“Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.”​

— Romans 12:17​

Grace and Peace

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

AI response to AI:

1. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 – Appositional Genitive

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”
• Appositional genitive: the second noun explains, identifies, or clarifies the first.
  • Translation: “obedience, which is faith” or “obedience that is faith in essence.”
  • This is different from the causal genitive (“obedience that comes from faith”) which LB cited.
• Implication: In God’s command, obedience is the same act as believing — functionally equivalent.
• Supportive texts: Romans 10:16 (“They did not all obey the gospel”) equates “obey” with believing the message.

2. Hebrews 3:18–19

• Unbelief is defined as disobedience to God’s word.
• Here, failure to believe = disobedience, showing functional equivalence between belief and obedience.
• NT authors frequently use this equivalence: John 3:36 — “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life.”

3. Hebrews 5:9; 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• Hebrews 5:9: “Salvation is for those who obey Him.”
• 1 Peter 4:17 & 2 Thess 1:8: Obeying the Gospel = the response expected of those who believe.
• These passages treat obedience not as external evidence, but as the scriptural description of the believer’s act.

4. Christ as King – Psalm 2

• “Christ” = God’s anointed King.
• To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge His authority.
• Logical consequence: Disobeying Him while claiming belief is self-contradictory — an oxymoron.
• Faith that is not obedience to Christ is not faith in the NT sense.

5. Functional Equivalence Defined

• Functional equivalence: two acts serve the same purpose in a given context.
• When God commands belief in Jesus Christ:
  • Command = believe
  • Response = believing = obeying
• Therefore, genuine faith in Christ = obedience to Him in the act of believing.

6. Where LB’s AI Misses

1. Appositional Genitive Ignored
   • LB reads hypakoē pisteōs causally (“obedience that springs from faith”) rather than appositionally (“obedience = faith”).
2. Corpus Evidence Overlooked
   • Romans 10:16, Heb 3:18–19, 1 Pet 4:17, 2 Thess 1:8 — all treat belief and obedience as linguistically and logically equivalent.
3. Christology Not Integrated
   • Psalm 2 and the authority of Christ are not referenced; LB treats obedience as abstract evidence rather than intrinsic to believing the King.
4. Logical Implication Missed
   • Genuine faith requires obedience to Christ. LB treats obedience as secondary, not intrinsic.

7. Synthesis Statement

Lexically, grammatically, and logically, the NT presents obedience and genuine faith as functionally equivalent when the command is to believe in Christ.​

The obedience inherent in faith is part of what makes it genuine.​

Therefore, a claim to believe in Christ while refusing obedience is self-contradictory.​

LB’s AI response, while doctrinally standard, sidesteps the appositional/genitive evidence and functional equivalence logic.​

Is AI able to determine if text is AI generated, like it can do with AI generated images? There's a limited number of engines and I imagine they all have their different outputted styles and formats which I suppose AI could recognize

 

[LightBearer316]

Water Baptism vs Spiritual Baptism

Water baptism a commandment given by Jesus, Peter & others. It's a public proclamation of self denial, identifying with Jesus death, burial & resurrection, & belonging to Him as well. An outward physical expression of one's previous inner spiritual transformation.

Water Baptism isn't the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth. It's a physical act of obedience/a gateway to discipleship. This event follows the eternal salvation sealing Holy Spirit baptism, performed by Christ alone. Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 2:38, 10:45, 11:16)

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear: He/John baptized with water & that Christ would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT.)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by """ONE SPIRIT""" are we """ALL""" """BAPTIZED""" into one body! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing eternally indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Col 2:
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(MY NOTE: ""IN Him"". Find Spiritual connections Jn 17:20,21,22,23.)

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(MY NOTE: KJV Dictionary Definition: Complete, 1.) Having no deficiency; perfect. And ye are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power. Col 2:10. The believer is made complete/perfect, by Faith ""IN Him"")

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(MY NOTE: OT circumcision covenant was a physical sign of belonging to God's chosen covenant people. Spiritual circumcision covenant is divine, ""made without hands"", internal ""IN Him/IN you"" & transformative. This Spiritual circumcision is performed by Christ. A covenantal break from the old order sin nature, it's success enabled by by Christ' Holy Spirit now dwelling ""IN you""!)

Spiritual baptism is the event where the believer is FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwelt/BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14), eternal life giving (Jn 10:28) Holy Spirit! Spiritual baptism doesn't require any hands or H2O.

During Jesus time an engagement/BETROTHAL was a legally binding contract. Marking the start of the marriage covenant. To show commitment the groom paid a bride price (Mohar). Jesus/our Bridegroom paid the ultimate price (1 Cor 6:20, 7:23, Acts 20:28, Eph 1:14). His GIFT of the Forever indwelling Holy Spirit is the believers engagement ring.

SEALED
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us > PRESENT TENSE). Is God's good deposit/down payment)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(MY NOTE: God has > PAST TENSE given/DONE DEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(MY NOTE: God has given the believer > PAST TENSE/DONE DEAL. The EARNEST = DEPOSIT/PLEDGE/PROMISE/SEAL)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news of your salvation: you believed & were > PAST TENSE SEALED/DONE DEAL! With/by God's salvation sealing Holy Spirit promise)

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes. SEALS & FOREVER [Jn indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED until their next unrepentant sin? NO! SEALED until the day they receive their heavenly body. Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit, is Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for every believer. Jews received this "Promise" at the Acts 2 Pentecost, gentiles at Acts 10 Cornelius. And now any/every Jew of gentile that repents (from unbelief to belief) in Christ' death & resurrection. Is given/receives "IS SEALED" with the salvation sealing H/S. Promise)

Additional recourses:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Seal

(d) ownership and security, together with destination are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13, in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," not as AV, "after that ye believed;" the aorist participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;" so in 2 Corinthians 1:22 , where the Middle Voice intimates the special interest of the Sealer in His act; (e) authentication by the believer (by receiving the witness of the Son) of the fact that "God is true

(NY NOTE: The SEAL is a promise/sign/seal of Ownership & Security. Conveyed in Eph 1:13, in the metaphor of the "SEALING" of believer, by the gift of the Holy Spirit. Action upon believing/at the time of their regeneration, NOT after a lapse of time in their spiritual life)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14
(MY NOTE: Vines confirms the meaning I presented in 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14, 4:30, 2 Timothy 1:14 Salvation SEALED FOREVER!)

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Salvation

(2/b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Acts 4:12 , and upon confession of Him as Lord, Romans 10:10 ; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Romans 1:16 ; Ephesians 1:13 (see further under SAVE);
https://studybible.info/vines/Salvation

(MY NOTE: "ETERNAL DELIVERANCE GRANTED IMMEDIATELY" by God. To those who accept His conditions of repentance (from unbelief to belief) & faith in the Lord Jesus death & resurrection)

Have they accused you of holding Calvinist views yet? Watch out! They might upload a pic of wolf with your username on it.

 

[studier]

Brother, what you are attempting to do is disingenuous; no software “analysis” can determine authorship on a forum post. I write my own replies after prayer and study in the King James Bible.
Whether a sentence sounds polished or plain doesn’t matter — what matters is whether it’s true to Scripture.

Unconvincing.

If what I wrote is wrong, show me from the Word.

Already done. You ignored the parts that provided specificity in order to maintain ambiguity helpful to your theological tradition.

Studier, it’s become clear that you’ve used multiple accounts to reinforce your own positions. I’ve determined this through sophisticated software analysis — at least, that’s how absurd your claim sounds when turned back around. See how ludicrous that even reads?

Diversion.

Just add it to the pile of things I've been called on this forum... The list just keeps growing...

Maybe the shoe fits in some instances. Saying you use AI isn't calling you a name. If we haven't been called names on this forum, then we haven't posted on this forum. If being called names is a badge of honor proving your view of Scripture is correct, then we have an abundance of contradictory interpretation by different posters all being correct.

Is AI able to determine if text is AI generated, like it can do with AI generated images? There's a limited number of engines and I imagine they all have their different outputted styles and formats which I suppose AI could recognize

All I can tell you is that I pasted one of his earliest posts on this forum into AI and it said his posts bear all the marks of AI. It explained to me how AI is programmed to format responses and went through his post point-by-point to explain its analysis and why Ai thought it was AI or AI assisted.

 

[NightTwister]

• Greek: hypakoē pisteōs → literally, “obedience of faith.”

It's just too bad that all of those biblical scholars who translated the scriptures didn't understand Greek.

 

[Ouch]

Brother, I appreciate your zeal for the Word — but our discussion must rest on the whole counsel of Scripture, not a single verse lifted out of its context.

You asked why baptism was commanded if sins were already remitted. The answer is the same reason Jesus commanded the Lord’s Supper: both are acts of obedience that follow salvation, not the cause of it.
Peter preached in Acts 10:43 KJV —

“That through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”​

And before any water was used,

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” — Acts 10:44 KJV​

God Himself confirmed their hearts were “purified by faith” — Acts 15:9 KJV.
If the Spirit was poured out before baptism, then baptism cannot be the means of forgiveness. It’s the sign that remission has already occurred through faith in Christ’s name.

Peter never contradicts Jesus; he fulfills His command in Luke 24:47 KJV —

“That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.”​

That’s exactly what Peter preached: repentance and remission in His name — and baptism followed as the public witness of that faith.

So yes, we obey the command to be baptized, but we do so because we are saved, not to become saved.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” — Ephesians 2:8 KJV​

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

No sure why you call us brothers?

I'm just in the seed bossiness as you can see not all will follow JESUS and HIS word that is why so many different denominations.

JUST BECAUSE YOU READ HIS WORD OR GO TO CHURCH DOES NOT MEAN YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN.

HOW COME JUST FAITH DIDN'T HEAL THIS WOMEN?????

Luke 8:43-48
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

SHE HAD SO MUCH FATIH THAT SHE ACTED ON IT AND WAS HEALED, IF SHE DID NOTHING, NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, NOTHING AT ALL.

HOW COME JUST FATIH DIDN'T FILL THE EPHENSION WITH THE HOLY GHOST?

THEY DIDN'T EVEN EVER HEAR OF IT.


Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.



So keep it simple,

Show me anywhere that believe alone forgives sins.

Show me where Acts 15:9 says sins are forgiven, or show me where purified by faith removes sins.

"That’s exactly what Peter preached: repentance and remission in His name — and baptism followed as the public witness of that faith."

PROVE BAPTISM IS PUBLIC WITNESS OF FAITH, TO BE TRUE, "baptism followed as the public witness of that faith." OR IT'S A LIE FROM SATAN.

YOU SAID IT, IS IT A LIE? DO YOU KNOW WHERE LIARS GO?

FYI, IT IS FORGIVABLE IF, IF YOU REPENT.

"So yes, we obey the command to be baptized, but we do so because we are saved, not to become saved."

Since we can not be saved with our sins, PROVE THIS TO BE TRUE OR IT'S A LIE FROM SATAN.

We are saved by grace, GOD gracely gives us water to get rid of our sins.

You like pointing fingers at other who do not follow HIS rule book, so

NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND OTHERS WHO DO NOT FOLLOW HIS WORD?

ALL of GOD'S word is good.

Are you trying to claim no one today has to remove our sins to be saved?

You really should look at who Paul is speaking to in Romans 10: 1 Brethren,
my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

First he's not addressing the unsaved but he is speaking to one of the churches he started, if you keep reading you will understand.

Also notice how he starts out HIS HEART'S desire for them to be saved.

That verse is perfect verse to prove after we are reborn, repent, baptized in JESUS name to remove our sins and JESUS filled us with HIS spirit like HE did HIS DISCIPLES in Acts 2:4. that once saved always saved is not true.

Same with the Ephesians,

Ephesians 1,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

If you are claiming we can be reborn without getting rid of our sins, show me how we do OR will sin enter Heaven?

 

[Ouch]

Care to name a few?

Nope, scared.

We can seperate them this way.

Look for the churchs that beleive the man-made sinners prayer is all you have to do to be saved.
Or saved by grace or faith alone.
Paul preached a different message. etc.

None of it is bible.

As we can tell by HIS word, we are suppose to baptized in JESUS name so look of all of the churchs who baptized in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

JESUS said we have to be born of water and of spirit, look for churches that JESUS hasn't filled them with the Holy Ghost like HE did with HIS DISCIPLES in Acts 2:4.

You can see the ones following JESUS and HIS word or man's, you can pick them out yourself.

 

[LightBearer316]

No sure why you call us brothers?

I'm just in the seed bossiness as you can see not all will follow JESUS and HIS word that is why so many different denominations.

JUST BECAUSE YOU READ HIS WORD OR GO TO CHURCH DOES NOT MEAN YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN.

HOW COME JUST FAITH DIDN'T HEAL THIS WOMEN?????

Luke 8:43-48
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

SHE HAD SO MUCH FATIH THAT SHE ACTED ON IT AND WAS HEALED, IF SHE DID NOTHING, NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, NOTHING AT ALL.

HOW COME JUST FATIH DIDN'T FILL THE EPHENSION WITH THE HOLY GHOST?

THEY DIDN'T EVEN EVER HEAR OF IT.


Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.



So keep it simple,

Show me anywhere that believe alone forgives sins.

Show me where Acts 15:9 says sins are forgiven, or show me where purified by faith removes sins.

"That’s exactly what Peter preached: repentance and remission in His name — and baptism followed as the public witness of that faith."

PR
NOW TE
First he's not addressing the unsaved but he is speaking to one of the churches he started, if you keep reading you will understand.

Also notice how he starts out HIS HEART'S desire for them to be saved.

That verse is perfect verse to prove after we are reborn, repent, baptized in JESUS name to remove our sins and JESUS filled us with HIS spirit like HE did HIS DISCIPLES in Acts 2:4. that once saved always saved is not true.

Same with the Ephesians,

Ephesians 1,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

If you are claiming we can be reborn without getting rid of our sins, show me how we do OR will sin enter Heaven?

Ouch, I have asked you before to pause and compare the scriptures with me. Isaiah 1:18 (KJV): “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
I will respond with almost nothing, but the Word of GOD, which is the only source of truth. I have grouped them into 6 sections "Come now, and let us reason together, brother. Scripture compared with Scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:13 (KJV):
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1. Salvation is through faith — not works or rituals

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

Not of works, lest any man should boast.”​

— Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV​

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”​

— Romans 5:1 KJV​

“To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”​

— Romans 4:5 KJV​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”​

— Galatians 2:16 KJV​

2. Faith acts — but faith is the root, not the ritual

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”​

— Romans 10:17 KJV​

“But without faith it is impossible to please him.”​

— Hebrews 11:6 KJV​

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?​

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”​

— James 2:21-22 KJV​

(Faith produces obedience; obedience does not replace faith.)


3. Forgiveness of sins comes through Christ’s blood, not through water

“In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.”​

— Ephesians 1:7 KJV​

“Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”​

— Revelation 1:5 KJV​

“The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”​

— 1 John 1:7 KJV​

“Without shedding of blood is no remission.”​

— Hebrews 9:22 KJV​

4. Baptism follows salvation — it does not produce it

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized.”​

— Acts 2:41 KJV​

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”​

— Acts 10:47 KJV​

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.”​

— 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV​

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”​

— 1 Peter 3:21 KJV​

(Peter himself clarifies that the water does not cleanse — the conscience and faith toward God do.)


5. Salvation is a new birth by the Spirit

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”​

— John 3:6 KJV​

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”​

— Titus 3:5 KJV​

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.”​

— 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV​

6. Eternal security rests in Christ’s keeping power

“He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,​

and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”​

— John 5:24 KJV​

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”​

— Philippians 1:6 KJV​

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”​

— John 10:28 KJV​

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV) — a perfect companion to Isaiah 1:18.

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[LightBearer316]

@studier Brother..... Calm down.... Where does this hate in your heart originate? Not from the Spirit?

James 1:26 (KJV) “If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.”