Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[mailmandan]

That long passage is a classic shift-move in Acts-2:38 debates. Wansvic is trying to redefine “believing” as “believing = obeying everything God commands” — especially baptism in Jesus’ name. So he cites Hebrews 11 to show that “faith acts,” then concludes that saving faith includes the act of baptism itself.

That lets him argue:

“When Acts 2:38 says ‘repent and be baptized for the remission of sins,’ that obedience is the moment salvation happens.”​

It’s the same reasoning used by Oneness Pentecostals and other baptismal-regeneration groups.

The biblical response to this heresy is:

1. Faith and obedience are related, but not identical.
   • Faith produces obedience; it isn’t equal to it.
   • Abraham was justified before his works (Romans 4:2-5 KJV).
   • His obedience (offering Isaac) proved his faith, it didn’t create it (James 2:21-23).
2. Hebrews 11 shows what faith does, not how it saves.
   • Each example begins with “By faith”—their actions flowed from belief they already had.
   • Noah built, Abraham went, Moses left Egypt—because they already believed God’s word.
   • None of those actions earned righteousness; they were expressions of it.
3. The New Testament order is constant:
   • Believe → receive life → then obey.
   • “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36 KJV)
   • “After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” (Eph 1:13 KJV)
   • Acts 10:43-47 KJV shows the Spirit falling before baptism.
4. James 2:26 doesn’t teach salvation-by-works; it teaches that real faith produces works—just as a living body breathes. Works are evidence, not the engine.

Amen—faith acts. But the order still matters.
Every example you quoted acted because they already believed.
Their obedience proved faith, not produced salvation.
In the same way, baptism follows believing—it testifies to grace already received, not a condition for earning it.
‘By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.’ (Eph 2:8-9 KJV)

Grace and Peace

Excellent post brother! Works-salvationists in general seem to redefine believing as "obeying everything God commands” with a heavy emphasis on water baptism. Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I was taught that same error which prevented me from believing the gospel and kept me trusting in a works based false gospel.

It was not until I finally came to understand that while faith and obedience are related, they are not identical and that faith produces obedience. So, faith involves belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and obedience which follows is works and we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Coming to understand that critical truth was my turning point and caused me to receive Christ through faith and become saved. Praise God!

 

[LightBearer316]

Yea, hath God said "baptism now saves us?"

The antitype, baptism, also now saves us. Not the laying aside filth of flesh, but the petition of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21​

​

Baptism shall not surely save you, for God doth know faith saves you and baptism is merely a sign.

That’s a clever rhetorical move by ChristRoseFromTheDead. He’s trying to flip my statement (“baptism itself [isn’t] the saving act”) back on me using sarcasm and Genesis-3 style parody—

“Yea, hath God said…”​

​

He’s quoting 1 Peter 3:21 to argue that Scripture literally says “baptism now saves us,” so denying that is supposedly denying God’s Word. He frames my position as if I'm repeating the serpent’s trick—questioning what God “really said.”

In short, he’s using irony to imply:

“The Bible says baptism saves; you’re the one twisting it.”​

This is a rhetorical trap—it oversimplifies the verse and ignores Peter’s own clarification in the same sentence.
What 1 Peter 3:21 actually says

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”​

Peter immediately explains what he means:

• “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh” → not the water itself.
• “But the answer (Greek: eperōtēma — appeal) of a good conscience toward God” → faith’s response to grace.
• “By the resurrection of Jesus Christ” → salvation’s true power source.

So Peter’s meaning is:

The baptism that saves is not the outward washing, but the inward faith in Christ’s resurrection that baptism represents.​

It’s the antitype—the spiritual reality symbolized by the act, not the water ritual itself.

Brother, 1 Peter 3:21 actually explains its own meaning.
Peter says baptism saves us “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

The saving element isn’t the water—it’s the faithful appeal of a heart cleansed by Christ’s resurrection.
Baptism is the outward picture of that inward reality, just as Noah was saved through the water by the ark, not by the water itself (v. 20).

The power that saves has always been the risen Christ, not the pool.

Grace and peace—always in His Word.

 

[Wansvic]

Why read commentaries? They are not written by God but by fallible men who can sow seeds of heresy. The Spirit teaches you all things in Scripture, which was written for the simple to understand.

“At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I'm not looking to a commentary for answers. I see the answer quite clearly in the word of God. And that truth is also backed up by God's designs in nature.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:20

 

[LightBearer316]

TruthDefender said:
Why read commentaries? They are not written by God but by fallible men who can sow seeds of heresy. The Spirit teaches you all things in Scripture, which was written for the simple to understand.

“At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I'm not looking to a commentary for answers. I see the answer quite clearly in the word of God. And that truth is also backed up by God's designs in nature.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:Rom 1:20

Both of you are appealing to personal revelation over tested exegesis.​

The danger is that it removes accountability—if everyone’s personal “illumination” is final, there’s no shared standard.​

The Bereans in Acts 17:11 KJV didn’t reject teachers; they searched the Scriptures daily to verify what Paul said.​

​

Brothers, I agree that the Spirit is our Teacher (John 14:26 KJV), but He also uses faithful teachers and the study of sound doctrine to guard us from error (Eph 4:11-14 KJV).​

​

The Bereans didn’t rely on feelings; they tested every word against the written text.​

Commentaries aren’t inspired, but they can help us see language, history, and context so we “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim 2:15 KJV).​

​

The Spirit never leads us to despise careful study—He leads us deeper into the Word He inspired.​

​

Grace and peace—always in His Word.​

 

[Wansvic]

That long passage is a classic shift-move in Acts-2:38 debates. Wansvic is trying to redefine “believing” as “believing = obeying everything God commands” — especially baptism in Jesus’ name. So he cites Hebrews 11 to show that “faith acts,” then concludes that saving faith includes the act of baptism itself.

That lets him argue:

“When Acts 2:38 says ‘repent and be baptized for the remission of sins,’ that obedience is the moment salvation happens.”​

It’s the same reasoning used by Oneness Pentecostals and other baptismal-regeneration groups.

The biblical response to this heresy is:

1. Faith and obedience are related, but not identical.
   • Faith produces obedience; it isn’t equal to it.
   • Abraham was justified before his works (Romans 4:2-5 KJV).
   • His obedience (offering Isaac) proved his faith, it didn’t create it (James 2:21-23).
2. Hebrews 11 shows what faith does, not how it saves.
   • Each example begins with “By faith”—their actions flowed from belief they already had.
   • Noah built, Abraham went, Moses left Egypt—because they already believed God’s word.
   • None of those actions earned righteousness; they were expressions of it.
3. The New Testament order is constant:
   • Believe → receive life → then obey.
   • “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36 KJV)
   • “After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” (Eph 1:13 KJV)
   • Acts 10:43-47 KJV shows the Spirit falling before baptism.
4. James 2:26 doesn’t teach salvation-by-works; it teaches that real faith produces works—just as a living body breathes. Works are evidence, not the engine.

Amen—faith acts. But the order still matters.
Every example you quoted acted because they already believed.
Their obedience proved faith, not produced salvation.
In the same way, baptism follows believing—it testifies to grace already received, not a condition for earning it.
‘By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.’ (Eph 2:8-9 KJV)

Grace and Peace

I'm not redefining anything. It's all right there in the word for all to see.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Those who refuse to repent will perish. Luke 13:3
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16

 

[Believer08]

I'm not redefining anything. It's all right there in the word for all to see.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Those who refuse to repent will perish. Luke 13:3
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16

Beware of those who has to twist the plain meaning of a text into something that it is not meaning or saying.

Had one a long time ago to think Heb. 5:9 didn’t mean you obeyed to be saved, but that all who obey are saved.

 

[Believer08]

People like @TruthDefender (who I have on ignore) is an individual who loves to have the last word. Best to ignore people like her.

 

[Believer08]

@Wansvic, yes, it’s shocking..but we shouldn’t be surprised. The scriptures do teach how people twist the scriptures!! (2 Peter 3)

 

[LightBearer316]

I'm not redefining anything. It's all right there in the word for all to see.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Those who refuse to repent will perish. Luke 13:3
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16

Brother, those are powerful verses — and I agree, true faith always produces obedience.
But Scripture keeps the order clear: salvation is by faith unto obedience, not by obedience unto salvation.

Hebrews 5:9 describes the fruit of faith, not the formula for earning grace. The same letter says, “We which have believed do enter into rest.” (Heb 4:3 KJV)
And in Mark 16:16 KJV, unbelief—not lack of baptism—is what condemns. The baptismal act simply testifies to faith already present.

Christ is the Author of eternal salvation, and He saves those who trust Him; obedience follows because His Spirit now dwells within them.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[TruthDefender]

I'm not looking to a commentary for answers. I see the answer quite clearly in the word of God. And that truth is also backed up by God's designs in nature.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:20

I only said that because you had quoted something from:

“In this quote from Tertullian's *On Baptism*”—— human writing

 

[mailmandan]

Brother, those are powerful verses — and I agree, true faith always produces obedience.
But Scripture keeps the order clear: salvation is by faith unto obedience, not by obedience unto salvation.

Hebrews 5:9 describes the fruit of faith, not the formula for earning grace. The same letter says, “We which have believed do enter into rest.” (Heb 4:3 KJV)
And in Mark 16:16 KJV, unbelief—not lack of baptism—is what condemns. The baptismal act simply testifies to faith already present.

Christ is the Author of eternal salvation, and He saves those who trust Him; obedience follows because His Spirit now dwells within them.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

Amen! Folks who teach salvation by works typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with "prescriptive" passages of scripture and the end result is works righteousness.

 

[LightBearer316]

@Wansvic, yes, it’s shocking..but we shouldn’t be surprised. The scriptures do teach how people twist the scriptures!! (2 Peter 3)

Brother, Peter’s warning in 2 Peter 3 wasn’t about people who compare Scripture with Scripture; it was about those who pull verses out of context to build another gospel.

Reading Hebrews 5:9 or Mark 16:16 alongside the rest of the New Testament isn’t “wresting” the Word — it’s honoring the whole counsel of God. Paul, Peter, and James all agree: faith comes first, and genuine faith produces obedience.

The real twisting happens when someone makes obedience the cause instead of the fruit of salvation. Grace saves; obedience shows it.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[Ouch]

That long passage is a classic shift-move in Acts-2:38 debates. Wansvic is trying to redefine “believing” as “believing = obeying everything God commands” — especially baptism in Jesus’ name. So he cites Hebrews 11 to show that “faith acts,” then concludes that saving faith includes the act of baptism itself.

That lets him argue:

“When Acts 2:38 says ‘repent and be baptized for the remission of sins,’ that obedience is the moment salvation happens.”​

It’s the same reasoning used by Oneness Pentecostals and other baptismal-regeneration groups.

The biblical response to this heresy is:

1. Faith and obedience are related, but not identical.
   • Faith produces obedience; it isn’t equal to it.
   • Abraham was justified before his works (Romans 4:2-5 KJV).
   • His obedience (offering Isaac) proved his faith, it didn’t create it (James 2:21-23).
2. Hebrews 11 shows what faith does, not how it saves.
   • Each example begins with “By faith”—their actions flowed from belief they already had.
   • Noah built, Abraham went, Moses left Egypt—because they already believed God’s word.
   • None of those actions earned righteousness; they were expressions of it.
3. The New Testament order is constant:
   • Believe → receive life → then obey.
   • “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36 KJV)
   • “After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” (Eph 1:13 KJV)
   • Acts 10:43-47 KJV shows the Spirit falling before baptism.
4. James 2:26 doesn’t teach salvation-by-works; it teaches that real faith produces works—just as a living body breathes. Works are evidence, not the engine.

Amen—faith acts. But the order still matters.
Every example you quoted acted because they already believed.
Their obedience proved faith, not produced salvation.
In the same way, baptism follows believing—it testifies to grace already received, not a condition for earning it.
‘By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.’ (Eph 2:8-9 KJV)

Grace and Peace

No need to wonder why so many different denomanions, which some are leading people to Hell with them.

Instead of obeying HIS word and getting reborn some people like YOU just say anything you want.

What denomantion do you represent?

"Hebrews 11 to show that “faith acts,” then concludes that saving faith includes the act of baptism itself."

What is this all about?

I really don't want you opinion, that goes nowhere how about proving that is what you say it says in Hebrews.

 

[TheLearner]

tired and in pain so I read thru

 

[LightBearer316]

LightBearer316 said:
Brother, I’ve read Acts 2:38 KJV many times — and I believe every word of it. The issue isn’t disbelief; it’s context and consistency with the rest of Scripture.

Peter’s call to “repent and be baptized… for the remission of sins” was directed to the same Jewish crowd that had just rejected their Messiah. They needed to turn (repent) and publicly identify with the very Christ they crucified. That baptism was an act of faith — not a work that produced forgiveness, but one that expressed it.

How do we know? Because Peter later preached the same gospel to Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 KJV:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
They received the Holy Spirit before baptism. That means remission of sins comes through belief in Christ, just as Jesus Himself declared:

John 3:36 KJV — “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV — “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.”
So, when we rightly divide the Word, Acts 2:38 KJV doesn’t contradict these verses — it harmonizes with them. Repentance and baptism are the fruit of faith, not the cause of salvation.

And yes, we absolutely must “get rid of our sins” — but only Christ’s blood can do that, not the water itself.

1 John 1:7 KJV — “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
As for baptism “in Jesus’ name,” I follow the whole pattern of Scripture:

• Peter says it in Acts 2:38 KJV and Acts 10:48 KJV,
• yet Jesus Himself commanded it in Matthew 28:19 KJV,
  and the two agree — because the “name” of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one: the Lord Jesus Christ.

No contradiction, only perfect unity when the verses are read together.

Brother, my desire isn’t to win an argument but to honor the Word faithfully and let every verse stand in its rightful place.

Acts 20:27 KJV — “For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.”

Brother, I’m not questioning the truth of Acts 2:38 KJV. I’m asking how we reconcile it with Acts 10:43-47 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, and John 3:36 KJV — all of which come from the same Spirit. Let’s reason together from the Word, not from assumption.

Brother, I’ve shared these passages not to argue, but so we can both take an honest look at everything Scripture says on this.
Sometimes it helps to step back and really go through each of these verses again — Acts 2, Acts 10, John 3, Ephesians 2 — slowly and prayerfully, asking the Spirit to show how they all fit together.

2 Timothy 2:7 (KJV) — “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.”
I’d encourage you to take a pause and study these passages side by side.
When we do that with humility, God always reveals more than we first saw.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

Your brothers are the ones who will not accept HIS word either.

I just don't understand why you think your right and they are wrong?

I'm not debating scripture with you, it don't work.

For some reason you think in the middle of Acts 10 they were reborn and leave out what they did seconds or minutes later.

But Acts 8 and 19 prove your wrong and you just will not accept it.

It's like debating with a catholic they can't "SEE" and you can't either.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot (SEE, SEE, SEE) see the kingdom of God.

Just trying to plant seeds.

Acts 2:38 does go with

Acts 43 To 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Along with Eph 2:8-9 and John 3:36

ACTS 2:38 also goes with ALL OF HIS WORD.

It does not go with verse 43 to 47.

As I told you Satan's plan keep them out of the water, WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS IT WORKING?

Catholic don't baptize for remission of sins either.

Do you see the comparison?

Brother, I noticed you didn’t actually address a single passage I laid out in post # 396 @ 7:19 pm I asked us to look at them side by side, but instead you dismissed the invitation and went straight to accusations the next day @4:14am. That’s not reasoning from Scripture; that’s reacting to it.

Brother, what’s most revealing here isn’t disagreement — it’s that you completely skipped over what was asked. I invited you to pause, open the Scriptures side by side, and actually walk through Acts 2, Acts 10, John 3, and Ephesians 2 together. You didn’t do that — you just brushed it aside with accusations.

That’s not how we “reason together” in the Word (Isaiah 1:18 KJV). It shows a heart already settled rather than one still searching. Anyone who’s confident in truth shouldn’t fear taking the time to test it carefully by Scripture itself.

My post wasn’t about winning an argument — it was about honoring the text in full context. Refusing to even look at the verses proves the very close-mindedness you accuse others of.

Let this stand as an example for others on the forum — sometimes you simply have to move on.
When someone refuses to open the Word together or examine Scripture honestly, further discussion only circles the same ground.
Truth doesn’t fear examination, but pride often does.

He should’ve paused, prayed, and gone over it for a few days before responding — because truth isn’t found in haste but in humble reflection.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Acts 17:11 KJV — They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[LightBearer316]

tired and in pain so I read thru

Just focus on healing, brother. At least you can still read, and I pray the Lord will open your heart to the truth I’ve tried to share. His Word never returns void.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Isaiah 55:11 KJV — So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void.

 

[Ouch]

Brother, I noticed you didn’t actually address a single passage I laid out in post # 396 @ 7:19 pm I asked us to look at them side by side, but instead you dismissed the invitation and went straight to accusations the next day @4:14am. That’s not reasoning from Scripture; that’s reacting to it.

Brother, what’s most revealing here isn’t disagreement — it’s that you completely skipped over what was asked. I invited you to pause, open the Scriptures side by side, and actually walk through Acts 2, Acts 10, John 3, and Ephesians 2 together. You didn’t do that — you just brushed it aside with accusations.

That’s not how we “reason together” in the Word (Isaiah 1:18 KJV). It shows a heart already settled rather than one still searching. Anyone who’s confident in truth shouldn’t fear taking the time to test it carefully by Scripture itself.

My post wasn’t about winning an argument — it was about honoring the text in full context. Refusing to even look at the verses proves the very close-mindedness you accuse others of.

Let this stand as an example for others on the forum — sometimes you simply have to move on.
When someone refuses to open the Word together or examine Scripture honestly, further discussion only circles the same ground.
Truth doesn’t fear examination, but pride often does.

He should’ve paused, prayed, and gone over it for a few days before responding — because truth isn’t found in haste but in humble reflection.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.
Acts 17:11 KJV — They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Your reasoning is what I went past.

Your foundation is Acts 2:38 lines up with Acts 10 but only up to veres 47, but it doesn't no sins remove before verse 48 so your statment is not true.

It does not matter how many times you repet it, it will never be true.

I just what to know why you think your right while not following HIS rule book and you point your fingers at other who are not following HIS word.

FYI, sin separates us from GOD, and if you want to get rid of them like Peter told them in Acts 10:48 I COMMAND YOU TO BE BAPTIZED, COMMAND YOU TO BE BAPTIZED which is what JESUS told HIS APOSTLES TO DO in Matthew 28:19.

 

[LightBearer316]

Your reasoning is what I went past.

Your foundation is Acts 2:38 lines up with Acts 10 but only up to veres 47, but it doesn't no sins remove before verse 48 so your statment is not true.

It does not matter how many times you repet it, it will never be true.

I just what to know why you think your right while not following HIS rule book and you point your fingers at other who are not following HIS word.

FYI, sin separates us from GOD, and if you want to get rid of them like Peter told them in Acts 10:48 I COMMAND YOU TO BE BAPTIZED, COMMAND YOU TO BE BAPTIZED which is what JESUS told HIS APOSTLES TO DO in Matthew 28:19.

Brother, let’s actually put the texts side-by-side like I asked.

1) Acts 10 shows remission by faith before water

• Acts 10:43 — “…whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
• Acts 10:44 — “While Peter yet spake… the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
• Acts 10:47–48 — They are commanded to be baptized after the Spirit falls.

God does not pour out His Holy Ghost on the unforgiven (cf. Acts 15:8–9 “**purifying their hearts by faith” ; Eph 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with… the Holy Spirit”).
So the claim “no sins removed before v.48” contradicts v.43 (remission on believing) and v.44–47 (Spirit given prior to water).

Baptism in v.48 is commanded obedience, not the instrument that procures forgiveness already promised in v.43.

2) Acts 2:38 read in Luke–Acts context

Peter’s “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins” was preached to the very crowd that had rejected Messiah (Acts 2:36–37 KJV). In Luke’s own summary of the apostolic message, remission is preached “through his name” upon repentance/faith:

• Luke 24:47 — “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name”
• Acts 10:43 — “whosoever believeth… shall receive remission”
• Acts 15:11 — “we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved”

The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name). That’s exactly what we see in Acts 10 and Acts 16 (jailer believes → baptized), and is what Peter himself later explains (Acts 15:7–11 KJV).

3) “But Peter commanded baptism” (Acts 10:48 KJV)

Amen—and so do I. Christ also commanded the Supper (Luke 22:19), yet the Supper isn’t the cause of justification. A command can be essential obedience without being the instrument of pardon. Peter’s own order in Acts 10 is unmistakable: believe → receive remission & Spirit → be baptized.

4) John 3 and the new birth

New birth is the Spirit’s work, received by faith:

• John 3:6–8 — birth “of the Spirit”
• John 3:14–16 — look to the crucified Christ and believe to have everlasting life.
  Peter clarifies the “water” imagery elsewhere isn’t bath-water removing sin:
  1 Peter 3:21 — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God… by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

5) Paul’s plain statements on how sins are remitted

• Ephesians 1:7 — “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.”
• Ephesians 2:8–9 — “By **grace… through faith… not of works.”
• Romans 10:9–13 — “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
  (Note Acts 22:16: “arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.” The participle marks calling on His name as the washing cause; baptism is the sign that accompanies that call.)

Summary

• Peter commands baptism (amen),
• but Peter grounds remission in belief in Christ (Acts 10:43 KJV),
• and God seals believers with the Spirit before water (Acts 10:44–47 KJV),
• which Peter later interprets as hearts purified by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV).

Truth doesn’t fear examination. Let’s keep the verses open together instead of trading accusations. If Acts 10:43–47 KJV isn’t “sins remitted and Spirit given prior to water,” then Peter’s own explanation in Acts 15 has no force.

Grace and peace—always in His Word (Acts 17:11 KJV).

 

[Ouch]

Brother, let’s actually put the texts side-by-side like I asked.







Grace and peace—always in His Word (Acts 17:11 KJV).

OK, lets look at them so then you can answer my question.

"God does not pour out His Holy Ghost on the unforgiven (cf. Acts 15:8–9 “**purifying their hearts by faith” ; Eph 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with… the Holy Spirit”).
So the claim “no sins removed before v.48” contradicts v.43 (remission on believing) and v.44–47 (Spirit given prior to water)."

GOD HAS TO OBEY HIS OWN RULE BOOK.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

WHY DO YOU SAY THEIR SIN WERE REMOVED BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED, IF SO WHY WAS THEY COMMAMAND TO BE BAPTIZED????

JESUS can do what HE wishes, LOOK IN ACTS 2,8 AND 19 they were baptized first!!!!

Since Peter wasn't allowed to speak to the Greeks in those days HE WOULD NEVER HAVR BAPTIZED THEM IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM FIRST.

DON'T YOU GET IT, EPH WAS TO THE CHURCH'S WHO WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ALREADY, PAUL IS SPEAKING TO HIS CHRUCH.

SO IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR JESUS TO REMOVE THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED.

"Peter’s “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins” was preached to the very crowd that had rejected Messiah (Acts 2:36–37 KJV). In Luke’s own summary of the apostolic message, remission is preached “through his name” upon repentance/faith:
Luke 24:47 — “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name”
Acts 10:43 — “whosoever believeth… shall receive remission”
Acts 15:11 — “we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved”
The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name). That’s exactly what we see in Acts 10 and Acts 16 (jailer believes → baptized), and is what Peter himself later explains (Acts 15:7–11 KJV)."

YOU ADDED THIS AT THE END, "upon repentance/faith:"

It's not good to add or take away from HIS word, but you have to, to make you think you right.

"The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name)."

LIE FROM SATAN, YOU SEE HOW YOU CLAIM SOMETHING TO BE TRUE, AND NOW YOUR WORDING MAKES IT TRUE.

"3) “But Peter commanded baptism” (Acts 10:48 KJV)

Amen—and so do I. Christ also commanded the Supper (Luke 22:19), yet the Supper isn’t the cause of justification. A command can be essential obedience without being the instrument of pardon. Peter’s own order in Acts 10 is unmistakable: believe → receive remission & Spirit → be baptized."

PETER DIDN'T ORDER THEM NOTHING BUT TO BE BAPTIZED, HE WAS PREACHING TO THEM AND JESUS FILLED THEM WITH HOLY GHOST, MORE LIES.

WHO CARES WHAT ORDER WE NEED ALL THREE TO BE REBORN,

JESUS JOB IS TO FILL US, AS HE HAS NOT FILLED YOU YET, HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME?

"4) John 3 and the new birth

New birth is the Spirit’s work, received by faith:
John 3:6–8 — birth “of the Spirit”
John 3:14–16 — look to the crucified Christ and believe to have everlasting life.
Peter clarifies the “water” imagery elsewhere isn’t bath-water removing sin:
1 Peter 3:21 — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God… by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”"

SATAN ALSO ONLY USES A PART OF HIS WORD TO MAKE A POINT.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

MEANING, BAPTISM DOTH NOW SAVE US!!

Peter is explaining WATER DOES NOT WASH AWAY DIRT, when he says SAVES US is because it of good conscience that when we get baptized we are DYEING WITH HIM AND WILL BE RESURRECTED WITH HIM.


"Summary
Peter commands baptism (amen),
but Peter grounds remission in belief in Christ (Acts 10:43 KJV),
and God seals believers with the Spirit before water (Acts 10:44–47 KJV),
which Peter later interprets as hearts purified by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV)."

I'm sorry to tell you PETER DID NOT SET THE GROUND RULES FOR REMISSION OF SINS, JESUS DID AND IT'S IN BEING BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME. ALL OVER THE BOOK OF ACTS.

SO WHAT JESUS FILLED THEM FIRST, ACTS 8 AND 19 HE FILLED THEM AFTER.

Acts 15,
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter was in Judaea, they were speaking about the Gentiles being reborn, and Peter was telling them what happened,so what he says "purifying their hearts by faith"

THAT DOESN'T PROVE THAT IS WHEN THEIR SINS WERE REMOVED, BUT IT DOES PROVE IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED AND THEIR SINS WOULD NEVER BEEN REMOVED.


"Truth doesn’t fear examination. Let’s keep the verses open together instead of trading accusations. If Acts 10:43–47 KJV isn’t “sins remitted and Spirit given prior to water,” then Peter’s own explanation in Acts 15 has no force."

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM WHAT YOU CALL TRUE AND WHAT IS TRUE ARE TOO DIFFERENT THINGS.

AGAIN SO WHAT THEY GOT FILLED FIRST.

PETER KNOWS THE FOUNDATION, JESUS GAVE HIM THE KEYS TO HEAVEN, HE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES TO BE REBORN, READ ACTS 2:38-39 IN ACTS 10 HE DIDN'T LEAVE UNTIL THEY WERE.

IF IT WAS YOU IN ACTS 10 YOU WOULD HAVE LEFT THEM UNBORN, LEAVING OUT THE PART OF GETTING RID OF THEIR SINS.

Think of all of the lost people going to HELL not following HIS WORD.

NOW DO YOU FEEL BETTER ME GOING OVER YOUR THOUGHTS ONCE AGAIN.

Have you obeyed JESUS and have been baptized in HIS WONDERFUL NAME and since JESUS has not filled you with HIS HOLY GHOST.

People being reborn in the book of Acts.

Acts 2, received the the Holy Ghost and baptized later.
Acts 8, baptized and received the Holy Ghost days maybe weeks later.
Acts 10, received the Holy Ghost and baptized just after.
Acts 19, HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIVED????????? Were baptized and received the Holy Ghost when Paul laid hands on them.

IN ALL CASES, EVERYONE they were baptized in JESUS name and was filled with the HOLY GHOST IT DOES NOT MATTER TO JESUS WHICH ONE COMES FIRST, WHY DOES IT MATTER TO US?

JUST OBEY!!!

You like pointing fingers at other who do not follow HIS rule book, so

NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND OTHERS WHO DO NOT FOLLOW HIS WORD?

 

[LightBearer316]

OK, lets look at them so then you can answer my question.

"God does not pour out His Holy Ghost on the unforgiven (cf. Acts 15:8–9 “**purifying their hearts by faith” ; Eph 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with… the Holy Spirit”).
So the claim “no sins removed before v.48” contradicts v.43 (remission on believing) and v.44–47 (Spirit given prior to water)."

GOD HAS TO OBEY HIS OWN RULE BOOK.

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

WHY DO YOU SAY THEIR SIN WERE REMOVED BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED, IF SO WHY WAS THEY COMMAMAND TO BE BAPTIZED????

JESUS can do what HE wishes, LOOK IN ACTS 2,8 AND 19 they were baptized first!!!!

Since Peter wasn't allowed to speak to the Greeks in those days HE WOULD NEVER HAVR BAPTIZED THEM IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM FIRST.

DON'T YOU GET IT, EPH WAS TO THE CHURCH'S WHO WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ALREADY, PAUL IS SPEAKING TO HIS CHRUCH.

SO IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE FOR JESUS TO REMOVE THEIR SINS BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED.

"Peter’s “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins” was preached to the very crowd that had rejected Messiah (Acts 2:36–37 KJV). In Luke’s own summary of the apostolic message, remission is preached “through his name” upon repentance/faith:
Luke 24:47 — “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name”
Acts 10:43 — “whosoever believeth… shall receive remission”
Acts 15:11 — “we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved”
The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name). That’s exactly what we see in Acts 10 and Acts 16 (jailer believes → baptized), and is what Peter himself later explains (Acts 15:7–11 KJV)."

YOU ADDED THIS AT THE END, "upon repentance/faith:"

It's not good to add or take away from HIS word, but you have to, to make you think you right.

"The sign that publicly names you with Christ (baptism) properly follows the thing signified (remission by faith in His name)."

LIE FROM SATAN, YOU SEE HOW YOU CLAIM SOMETHING TO BE TRUE, AND NOW YOUR WORDING MAKES IT TRUE.

"3) “But Peter commanded baptism” (Acts 10:48 KJV)

Amen—and so do I. Christ also commanded the Supper (Luke 22:19), yet the Supper isn’t the cause of justification. A command can be essential obedience without being the instrument of pardon. Peter’s own order in Acts 10 is unmistakable: believe → receive remission & Spirit → be baptized."

PETER DIDN'T ORDER THEM NOTHING BUT TO BE BAPTIZED, HE WAS PREACHING TO THEM AND JESUS FILLED THEM WITH HOLY GHOST, MORE LIES.

WHO CARES WHAT ORDER WE NEED ALL THREE TO BE REBORN,

JESUS JOB IS TO FILL US, AS HE HAS NOT FILLED YOU YET, HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME?

"4) John 3 and the new birth

New birth is the Spirit’s work, received by faith:
John 3:6–8 — birth “of the Spirit”
John 3:14–16 — look to the crucified Christ and believe to have everlasting life.
Peter clarifies the “water” imagery elsewhere isn’t bath-water removing sin:
1 Peter 3:21 — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God… by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”"

SATAN ALSO ONLY USES A PART OF HIS WORD TO MAKE A POINT.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

MEANING, BAPTISM DOTH NOW SAVE US!!

Peter is explaining WATER DOES NOT WASH AWAY DIRT, when he says SAVES US is because it of good conscience that when we get baptized we are DYEING WITH HIM AND WILL BE RESURRECTED WITH HIM.


"Summary
Peter commands baptism (amen),
but Peter grounds remission in belief in Christ (Acts 10:43 KJV),
and God seals believers with the Spirit before water (Acts 10:44–47 KJV),
which Peter later interprets as hearts purified by faith (Acts 15:9 KJV)."

I'm sorry to tell you PETER DID NOT SET THE GROUND RULES FOR REMISSION OF SINS, JESUS DID AND IT'S IN BEING BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME. ALL OVER THE BOOK OF ACTS.

SO WHAT JESUS FILLED THEM FIRST, ACTS 8 AND 19 HE FILLED THEM AFTER.

Acts 15,
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter was in Judaea, they were speaking about the Gentiles being reborn, and Peter was telling them what happened,so what he says "purifying their hearts by faith"

THAT DOESN'T PROVE THAT IS WHEN THEIR SINS WERE REMOVED, BUT IT DOES PROVE IF JESUS DIDN'T FILL THEM THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED AND THEIR SINS WOULD NEVER BEEN REMOVED.


"Truth doesn’t fear examination. Let’s keep the verses open together instead of trading accusations. If Acts 10:43–47 KJV isn’t “sins remitted and Spirit given prior to water,” then Peter’s own explanation in Acts 15 has no force."

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM WHAT YOU CALL TRUE AND WHAT IS TRUE ARE TOO DIFFERENT THINGS.

AGAIN SO WHAT THEY GOT FILLED FIRST.

PETER KNOWS THE FOUNDATION, JESUS GAVE HIM THE KEYS TO HEAVEN, HE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES TO BE REBORN, READ ACTS 2:38-39 IN ACTS 10 HE DIDN'T LEAVE UNTIL THEY WERE.

IF IT WAS YOU IN ACTS 10 YOU WOULD HAVE LEFT THEM UNBORN, LEAVING OUT THE PART OF GETTING RID OF THEIR SINS.

Think of all of the lost people going to HELL not following HIS WORD.

NOW DO YOU FEEL BETTER ME GOING OVER YOUR THOUGHTS ONCE AGAIN.

Have you obeyed JESUS and have been baptized in HIS WONDERFUL NAME and since JESUS has not filled you with HIS HOLY GHOST.

People being reborn in the book of Acts.

Acts 2, received the the Holy Ghost and baptized later.
Acts 8, baptized and received the Holy Ghost days maybe weeks later.
Acts 10, received the Holy Ghost and baptized just after.
Acts 19, HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIVED????????? Were baptized and received the Holy Ghost when Paul laid hands on them.

IN ALL CASES, EVERYONE they were baptized in JESUS name and was filled with the HOLY GHOST IT DOES NOT MATTER TO JESUS WHICH ONE COMES FIRST, WHY DOES IT MATTER TO US?

JUST OBEY!!!

You like pointing fingers at other who do not follow HIS rule book, so

NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND OTHERS WHO DO NOT FOLLOW HIS WORD?

Brother, I appreciate your zeal for the Word — but our discussion must rest on the whole counsel of Scripture, not a single verse lifted out of its context.

You asked why baptism was commanded if sins were already remitted. The answer is the same reason Jesus commanded the Lord’s Supper: both are acts of obedience that follow salvation, not the cause of it.
Peter preached in Acts 10:43 KJV —

“That through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”​

And before any water was used,

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” — Acts 10:44 KJV​

God Himself confirmed their hearts were “purified by faith” — Acts 15:9 KJV.
If the Spirit was poured out before baptism, then baptism cannot be the means of forgiveness. It’s the sign that remission has already occurred through faith in Christ’s name.

Peter never contradicts Jesus; he fulfills His command in Luke 24:47 KJV —

“That repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations.”​

That’s exactly what Peter preached: repentance and remission in His name — and baptism followed as the public witness of that faith.

So yes, we obey the command to be baptized, but we do so because we are saved, not to become saved.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” — Ephesians 2:8 KJV​

Grace and peace — always in His Word.