Abra Cadabra
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I believe they were tricks just like magicians use today. And when the witch tried to contour up Samual to speak to King Saul with black magic that it was God Who allowed it- it was God's power not hers. This is why Simon the sorcerer was so impressed with the apostle's miracles because what he practiced was trickery not magic. Only God has the ability, and even Satan has to get permission granted to him from God (as seen in the story of Job). If anyone has ability it is granted to them by God. No one has power of their own.
Just because people choose what clothes to wear, what food to eat, where to go and when to come back home, etc., does not mean they have free will my friend.
No one wakes up one day and wills themselves saved. No one, in their fallen state, would do so to begin with.
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
13“THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14“WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
15“THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
18“THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”(Romans 3)
God is the Seeker, we are the ones He seeks.
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.(Romans 8)
Look at the two people in view my friend.
Those who are according to the flesh have their minds focused on the flesh, the fleshly mind is death, this fleshly mind is hostile towards God and does not subject itself to God, and this fleshly mind can not please God because it is focused on self(the flesh) and not God.
Those who are according to the Spirit have their mind focused upon the things of the Spirit, have life and peace, and can please God because their mind is focused upon God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep.
Your special. Chosen, Because there is something about you Jesus like.
But the next Guy. There is just somethign about him Jesus does not like. So He chose not to allow him to even have a chance to believe,
actually calvinists believe and always say "it was nothing in us". that caused God to choose them
They were sinful just like anyone else, but were chosen because of grace. (unmerited favor)
I had to view the post you were quoting and I see EG is still mispresenting my view.
@eternally-gratefull please stop quoting my posts, I have you on ignore. Thank you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
yes, I have heard this many time, but I like to look at reality.
That makes no sense. If God choe you and not someoone else, There is something special about you. Just the fact you were choses shows favoritism.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Lol.. This will not stop me from exposing the truth about fatalsim. I did not misrepresent you at all. You have me on ignore, thats on you.
It would be better if you backed your view. But since you cant. Well then.
Funny isn't it? We're "special" because God has chosen us not based on anything in us, showing we were and are unworthy. 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c. It is all because of him, not us, contrary to his take on why he is "saved."
But "they're" not special, yet they're going to heaven because God did look on them only because they did something nice like, uh, they made a decision so God rewarded them.
Yet EG says it's because "there is something about you Jesus like" in derogation? LOL!!!
That would actually be his teaching and position concerning himself, not us. Let me show you:
As per usual, he has it exactly backwards and is bearing false witness. Why do I say he is bearing false witness? EG knows we believe in unconditional election, which proves his point to be an asinine argument. And he knows that the choosers like himself are the ones who believe they were chosen because of something special they did, or because of something special God saw in them, i.e. conditional election.
Hmmm. EG has to build his doctrine on bearing false witness of others and poor misinterpretations of Scripture? Yes, of course!
But I digress, his nonsense is so readily dismantled it's a pathetic waste of time.
In the very first paragraph of those links...
“The Reformed view of election, known as unconditional election, means that God does not foresee an action or condition on our part that induces Him to save us. Rather, election rests on God’s sovereign decision to save whomever He is pleased to save.”
@eternally-gratefull says God knew who would and would not choose Him, and He elected those He knew would accept Him. He has put a condition on salvation that, if properly understood and taught, would stop a lot of this man-centered theology.
I put him on ignore because I can not stand having someone misrepresent me.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
These people can laugh and attack all they want. They do not want to hear the truth about what it is in reality because it affects their own belief system.
The mere fact God says no to these people. But says yes to those people (not even allowing these people he said no to even have a change) proves favoritsm.
if they can not see it, Thats not on us..
of course God does not show favoritism, Proven by the fact he chose to offer the gift of his love to ALL creation. Not just to a certain SELECT group of people (whatever reason he chose them does nto matter)
Thats why no one will say a word for all eternity. because God chose to offer salvation EVEN to those who died giving him the finger (in unbelief)
Fatalsim does not shut down the argumentm It leaves to many questions.
The mere fact God says no to these people. But says yes to those people (not even allowing these people he said no to even have a change) proves favoritsm.
if they can not see it, Thats not on us..
of course God does not show favoritism, Proven by the fact he chose to offer the gift of his love to ALL creation. Not just to a certain SELECT group of people (whatever reason he chose them does nto matter)
Thats why no one will say a word for all eternity. because God chose to offer salvation EVEN to those who died giving him the finger (in unbelief)
Fatalsim does not shut down the argumentm It leaves to many questions.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If I was misrepresenting you. I could see. But I am not. You just do not like being confronted.
You are misrepresenting God. And frankly. That really upsets me..
Just for the record, more of EG's nonsense is about to be refuted:
He makes the charge of "fatalism" which shows he has no clue what it means or entails.
Fatalism is impersonal.
The Gospel's salvation via election is Personal, not impersonal, and is the design of our Personal God. Therefore it is not fatalism.
But like I said, he's just too easy to refute.
He makes the charge of "fatalism" which shows he has no clue what it means or entails.
Fatalism is impersonal.
The Gospel's salvation via election is Personal, not impersonal, and is the design of our Personal God. Therefore it is not fatalism.
But like I said, he's just too easy to refute.
Yes, he certainly "misrepresents" as his doctrine cannot thrive without that, making false claims and rejecting Scripture.
Alright big boy, you want confrontation, Brother you have got it!
You have misrepresented my view long enough. I have been civil with you long enough, now the gloves come off!
We were the children of wrath, just like the rest per Ephesians 2:3. There was nothing in us anymore special than the non-elect. Look at God’s response to Israel in Deut. 8:7,8. There was nothing in Israel that drew God’s attention, just that He loved them. The same can be said for us, the church. The church is an extension of Israel, not a replacement.
Now, for the last time, I do not consider myself better, or even lucky, because He saved me. I feel blessed He chose me inspite of myself.
You are off ignore, so sport, let’s tangle. For your information, it will not end well for you, my friend, if you misrepresent me again.
But he cannot "win" if he finally accepts the fact he's misrepresented others and has election wrong, i.e. accusing us of conditional election when that is his belief, not ours.
Brother, he doesn't care about the truth or telling the truth about our position. He's going to keep implementing his mistruths he knows are lies because his teaching cannot survive without them.
Another misrepresentation of my view, my friend. Why lie on me? I have told you my view and I am not special and you twist it to say I believe I am special. Why lie to try to win an argument?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
This does not make it true,
You may not feel your special. But according to your belief. You were chosen and ALLOWED the precious opportunity to be saved, where others who were in the same boat were not.
THAT ALONE, makes you special.
Just because you deny it does not make it true. Because CHose you, and di dnot chose another.
Now. If God offered ALL of you salvation. And by taking you to your knees, you called out to God to be saved, But the other person. Who ALSo was taken to his knees, went out fighting and rejected Gods offer. There is no favoritism shown. Because God offered ALL people the same gift. And you could not take credit if you said yes. Because GOD took you to your knees. All you did was admit you had no hope.. Which is what the tax collector did.
The tax collector went home justified NOT because he was regeneratoed or allowed to see. he went home because God brought him to his knees and he saw no other way. Vs the pharisee, Who could not see how bankrupt he was. Not because he was not regenerated, But because of pride.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You told me you do not believe you are special. I believe you, I believe with all. My heart you do not believe you are special
That does nt make it a fact. Thats my point. I am trying to get you to see the flaw in your thinking. Or should I say your doctrine, My argument is not against you, it is against your doctrine. Please do not take it personally, I have nothing aginst you.
