Vs 6 has already set the mark by saying faith is not about who ascends to heaven and who descends to the bottomless pit. So, you wrong if your interpretation of verse 8 is about those ascending and those descending.
Abide in Christ
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Vs 6 has already set the mark by saying faith is not about who ascends to heaven and who descends to the bottomless pit. So, you wrong if your interpretation of verse 8 is about those ascending and those descending.
John 15:
9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17This is my command: Love each other.
There's no arguing with this. Only IF you keep His commandments, you'll remain in Him and ONLY those who are in Him (those that keep His commandments) can produce any fruit.
You don't even know what you are saying.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
This verse here is BEFORE the verses you are posting.
There is NO KEEPING of any commands unless you first come to Christ and receive rest. There is NO KEEPING of any commands unless you are abiding in Christ, FIRST.
People can't love other people the way Christ loves them unless they are abiding in Christ and producing fruit.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Where did this goodness come from that keeps Christs commandments? From Christ, from abiding in Him. He is the source of our Righteousness.
I'm sure you are the one who doesn't understand.
Ok, let's see what comes before vs 5.
John 15:1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes a so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Q. But how does anyone remain in Christ??
9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
There's no arguing with this. Just a waste of time.
John 15:5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
There's basically two aspects; 1. If you remain and 2. If you don't remain and non of them is forced upon an individual. If people say that the first one is involuntary or God causes an individual to remain then the second is an impossibility because God will definitely continue to cause all men to remain in Him. We all know this is not correct hence the second part is a possibility, that's why it is written for our learning. Both of them are individual choices; those that choose to remain in Him bear more fruits but those that choose not to remain in Him can do nothing.
There's basically two aspects; 1. If you remain and 2. If you don't remain and non of them is forced upon an individual. If people say that the first one is involuntary or God causes an individual to remain then the second is an impossibility because God will definitely continue to cause all men to remain in Him. We all know this is not correct hence the second part is a possibility, that's why it is written for our learning. Both of them are individual choices; those that choose to remain in Him bear more fruits but those that choose not to remain in Him can do nothing.
No branch can bear fruit BY ITSELF.
Without Me you can do nothing.
How does anyone remain in Christ? Not by attempting to bear fruit by their self. Not by trying to keep commands by themselves.
By trusting in Christ, by faith in Christ, by being the Workmanship of God.
By using the Fruit that God produces to possibly help others to produce this same fruit.
But for some reason people continually reject His Grace and Mercy in favor of their own work and understanding. Its mind boggling.
Romans 10:
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: )
...
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The righteousness which is of faith (vs 6) comes by the word of faith preached (vs 8).
The word of faith which results in the righteousness of faith is
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (vs 9).