A view on Election

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Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I am in a debate on another forum and in this debate on election there kept coming a certain point that just made sense to me.

Election or favoritism from God is clearly seen throughout the bible but I think where the confusion lies is when it comes to salvation, See God is no respecter of persons this is true we can debate night and day on election but that one truth remains the same so in my mind something is missing from the formula

I noticed that with every person he favored or every person he predestined for something it was never about salvation not even once rather it was for a divine purpose and then it hit me that has to be it the purpose not the salvation is the reason and key for election

God is love he just and he knew every single one of us before he even formed us in the womb and scripture does not contradict itself so to me at least seeing all the times he raised some up and brought others down such as Abraham or Pharoh it was always about his will and purpose never once does it say he chooses some for salvation and others not even when Jesus spoke to the pharisee's he spoke to them as if they could or might understand even with Pharoh moses told him let my people go even though God knew he wouldn't he still made moses go through all that trouble and spoke the same line

The issue I see is that when it comes to salvation people tend to look past purpose or will of God and only see salvation while salvation is important the real imprtant thing to me is understanding first the purpose of his favoritism or election if we build out understanding on this first then doesn't the rest just kind of make sense?
 
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Election, All elected to see. to choose too beleive God in risen Son for them or not, Choice is free! God having no respect of anyone else better than anyone else Luke 18:9-14. No one is better than anyone else, No, not one. And then there are those that claim and wrestle with wanting to be better., what happens from that attitude(s)? God stops the Accusing, abusing and excusing self in Roams 2:1-4, as Paul straightens thorns out, for those that stop at Chapter 1 and begin to be a people better than other people, no one is! Ever
Election is to choose God, God calls us all to choose life or death, Been going. on since Adam the first. God had mercy from day 1, y'all
Has let everything play out good or bad. For me and everyone else too. I see to learn from mistakes (Sin, by Son presently taken out of the way) after all sin taken away by Son for the entire world first. John 1:29. 19:30
To go to God in Spirit and Truth (John 4:23-24) and be accountable to God as David was , when he saw, he not only did wrong with Bathsheba and her husband, More importantly, he saw this wrong was to God above it all, even said, when he admitted his wrong. Said that to God, I not only harmed others, I harmed you God (1 Cor 13:4-7)
Are we saying Lord please forgive me and not listening to God to learn from our mistakes and how ultimately this hurts God to do anyone else wrong ever!, Since God loves us all equally, proven in Son as resurrected from the dead in our deserved places to be dead?
Thanks Blain for the post
 
My comment:

What is missing in the above, are key teachings of Jesus Christ.


John 6

44 No man can come to me,------- except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God the Father is selecting the Bride for Christ, The Father and only the Father draws to Christ those He has preordained to be the Bride.

It is not up to the individual to “come to Christ” --- “No man can come to me,”



Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

IF Christ came to save the entire world at His first coming --- WHY did He make this statement? and if so out of 8 billion maybe 25% can be called some kind of a christian. And don't forget about the millions possibly billions that lived before Christ came.

Plus, at the Feast of Pentecost, there were only 120. After 3 ½ years of preaching to 10’s of thousands.

This is NOT the only day of salvation; it is just the beginning. FEW are Chosen!
 
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memberofthebride said:
My comment:

What is missing in the above, are key teachings of Jesus Christ.


John 6

44 No man can come to me,------- except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God the Father is selecting the Bride for Christ, The Father and only the Father draws to Christ those He has preordained to be the Bride.

It is not up to the individual to “come to Christ” --- “No man can come to me,”



Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

IF Christ came to save the entire world at His first coming --- WHY did He make this statement? and if so out of 8 billion maybe 25% can be called some kind of a christian. And don't forget about the millions possibly billions that lived before Christ came.

Plus, at the Feast of Pentecost, there were only 120. After 3 ½ years of preaching to 10’s of thousands.

This is NOT the only day of salvation; it is just the beginning. FEW are Chosen!
Click to expand...
None of those verses say anything about him saving a few and not others this however says he desires to save all Timothy 2:4 ("God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth") and 2 Peter 3:9 ("The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promis
Note the word all in that verse
 
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God by Son as risen has called us all to beleive Son is risen where new life is the gift given to =stand in and learn new from God, in helping one another
 
Another view of election is that what was predestined was a category such that those who trusted in Christ would be in that category and could be called "elect". The idea that God controls every aspect of life tends to attribute to him the evil that rightly belongs to those whose free will has chosen it.
 
Blain said:
I am in a debate on another forum and in this debate on election there kept coming a certain point that just made sense to me.

Election or favoritism from God is clearly seen throughout the bible but I think where the confusion lies is when it comes to salvation, See God is no respecter of persons this is true we can debate night and day on election but that one truth remains the same so in my mind something is missing from the formula

I noticed that with every person he favored or every person he predestined for something it was never about salvation not even once rather it was for a divine purpose and then it hit me that has to be it the purpose not the salvation is the reason and key for election

God is love he just and he knew every single one of us before he even formed us in the womb and scripture does not contradict itself so to me at least seeing all the times he raised some up and brought others down such as Abraham or Pharoh it was always about his will and purpose never once does it say he chooses some for salvation and others not even when Jesus spoke to the pharisee's he spoke to them as if they could or might understand even with Pharoh moses told him let my people go even though God knew he wouldn't he still made moses go through all that trouble and spoke the same line

The issue I see is that when it comes to salvation people tend to look past purpose or will of God and only see salvation while salvation is important the real imprtant thing to me is understanding first the purpose of his favoritism or election if we build out understanding on this first then doesn't the rest just kind of make sense?
Click to expand...
his will is inherent to everyone from the beginning well said to blain, makes a whole lot of sense 🙂
 
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memberofthebride said:
My comment:

What is missing in the above, are key teachings of Jesus Christ.


John 6

44 No man can come to me,------- except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God the Father is selecting the Bride for Christ, The Father and only the Father draws to Christ those He has preordained to be the Bride.

It is not up to the individual to “come to Christ” --- “No man can come to me,”



Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

IF Christ came to save the entire world at His first coming --- WHY did He make this statement? and if so out of 8 billion maybe 25% can be called some kind of a christian. And don't forget about the millions possibly billions that lived before Christ came.

Plus, at the Feast of Pentecost, there were only 120. After 3 ½ years of preaching to 10’s of thousands.

This is NOT the only day of salvation; it is just the beginning. FEW are Chosen!
Click to expand...

Because speaking in parables is a way to avoid casting one's pearls before swine. There are people who are in love with their own opinions and traditions, whose response, if you try to explain something more clearly that contradicts their own opinion or tradition, will not reason with you, but will huff and snort at you and resort to ad hominem attacks. Jesus gave truth in parables so that such people would decide His talk was childish fairytale nonsense and wander away to more important things. The sincere seekers of truth would come to Him privately to ask for a clearer explanation of His teaching. So, people self-selected as swine by their dismissal of the parables, and became chosen because of their genuine desire to understand the truths hidden within the parables.

Pro 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
but only in expressing his opinion.

The swine types one can identify on CC by their response to attempts to reason with them and explain a different understanding of a scripture from their own. They refuse to engage with substance of the critique, attach an "I disagree" or a "dislike" emoji to the challenging post, and continue to restate more aggressively their own opinions.
 
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memberofthebride said:
My comment:

What is missing in the above, are key teachings of Jesus Christ.


John 6

44 No man can come to me,------- except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God the Father is selecting the Bride for Christ, The Father and only the Father draws to Christ those He has preordained to be the Bride.

It is not up to the individual to “come to Christ” --- “No man can come to me,”



Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

IF Christ came to save the entire world at His first coming --- WHY did He make this statement? and if so out of 8 billion maybe 25% can be called some kind of a christian. And don't forget about the millions possibly billions that lived before Christ came.

Plus, at the Feast of Pentecost, there were only 120. After 3 ½ years of preaching to 10’s of thousands.

This is NOT the only day of salvation; it is just the beginning. FEW are Chosen!
Click to expand...
Matt 22:14 - Many are called (verse 11 - some that are called did not have on a wedding garment [ref; Col:12 - the elect of God]. Rom 8:29-30- God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified. Christ only died for those that His Father gave him and Jesus said all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but would raise them all up at the last day - John 6:37-39. God blinded the eyes from the knowledge of Christ's doctrine because of their turning away from him to worshiping idols. They are still part of the elect that Jesus died for. They are the many called, and the few chosen are the remnant of spiritual Israel who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ - Zephaniah 3:11-13.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Matt 22:14 - Many are called (verse 11 - some that are called did not have on a wedding garment [ref; Col:12 - the elect of God]. Rom 8:29-30- God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified. Christ only died for those that His Father gave him and Jesus said all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but would raise them all up at the last day - John 6:37-39. God blinded the eyes from the knowledge of Christ's doctrine because of their turning away from him to worshiping idols. They are still part of the elect that Jesus died for. They are the many called, and the few chosen are the remnant of spiritual Israel who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ - Zephaniah 3:11-13.
Click to expand...
So lovely to see you again, FGC!!! :)
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Thank you, I will turn 91 next month and it is a truth that the older you get, the faster the time flies.
Click to expand...
I kept checking to see if you were online since I last saw you, truly a blessing you are!!!

And I know, 2025 is almost finished, kaput, where did it go??? LOL
 
Blain said:
None of those verses say anything about him saving a few and not others this however says he desires to save all Timothy 2:4 ("God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth") and 2 Peter 3:9 ("The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promis
Note the word all in that verse
Click to expand...
you may be taking this verse out of context. In my interpretation of the "all" Peter was writing this letter to them that have obtained like precious faith. 2 Pet 1:1. Peter reaffirms that by including himself with the word "usward". Even those who have been born again, do at times. yield themselves to the temptations of this world and Peter is warning them that they will (perish = die to their fellowship with God until they repent).
 
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ForestGreenCook said:
Thank you, I will turn 91 next month and it is a truth that the older you get, the faster the time flies.
Click to expand...

God bless you for being 91 and being mentally sharp to operate the Internet.

My father is 87 and is lost when trying to change TV channels or when he’s confused with the remote …. So I have to help him.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Matt 22:14 - Many are called (verse 11 - some that are called did not have on a wedding garment [ref; Col:12 - the elect of God]. Rom 8:29-30- God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified. Christ only died for those that His Father gave him and Jesus said all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but would raise them all up at the last day - John 6:37-39. God blinded the eyes from the knowledge of Christ's doctrine because of their turning away from him to worshiping idols. They are still part of the elect that Jesus died for. They are the many called, and the few chosen are the remnant of spiritual Israel who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ - Zephaniah 3:11-13.
Click to expand...

yet all are called are all called, anyways?
I see they are, yet might reject as said those that have rejected are not in. Yet, God still provides love and mercy of Son for all, does God Father do that or not?
If not, then God is not fair is God. Your post sounds like to be, God is not fair to all! When God is fair to all and has no respect of persons, As anyone better than anyone else! Anyone better than anyone else Luke 18:9-14?
God has put forth love and mercy to all through Son Jesus, for all to respond to and do the same in willing trust to God too, thank you. Otherwise God is not Fair
Thanks, just the view I have gotten from your post, no offense meant
 
homwardbound said:
yet all are called are all called, anyways?
I see they are, yet might reject as said those that have rejected are not in. Yet, God still provides love and mercy of Son for all, does God Father do that or not?
If not, then God is not fair is God. Your post sounds like to be, God is not fair to all! When God is fair to all and has no respect of persons, As anyone better than anyone else! Anyone better than anyone else Luke 18:9-14?
God has put forth love and mercy to all through Son Jesus, for all to respond to and do the same in willing trust to God too, thank you. Otherwise God is not Fair
Thanks, just the view I have gotten from your post, no offense meant
Click to expand...
homwardbound said:
yet all are called are all called, anyways?
I see they are, yet might reject as said those that have rejected are not in. Yet, God still provides love and mercy of Son for all, does God Father do that or not?
If not, then God is not fair is God. Your post sounds like to be, God is not fair to all! When God is fair to all and has no respect of persons, As anyone better than anyone else! Anyone better than anyone else Luke 18:9-14?
God has put forth love and mercy to all through Son Jesus, for all to respond to and do the same in willing trust to God too, thank you. Otherwise God is not Fair
Thanks, just the view I have gotten from your post, no offense meant
Click to expand...
All of the scriptures must harmonize in order to portray the truths contained in the doctrine of Jesus Christ. If all mankind has a choice in accepting the truths in the scriptures, then how do you interpret 1 Cor 2:14?. God says that his ways are higher than our ways. (Isa 55:9) That is why we have to have faith in his judgements. In the 73re chapter of Psalms David was envious of the wicked because God did not plague (divinely punish) them. I can understand your confusion of the salvation scriptures in thinking that they all refer to eternal salvation. Salvation, according to Strong's concordance, means "a deliverance". If the scripture indicates that there is an action required to be saved (delivered) it has reference to a deliverance the eternally saved people experience as they live here on earth by obeying God's commandments. I pray that you will continue your discussion with me. Most God fearing people become angry with the way that I interpret scripture and refuse to discuss it further. From what I can understand through the scriptures, many of God's children treated Jesus in the same manner that they do me. I pray that we can continue a friendly discussion of the scriptures.
 
homwardbound said:
yet all are called are all called, anyways?
I see they are, yet might reject as said those that have rejected are not in. Yet, God still provides love and mercy of Son for all, does God Father do that or not?
If not, then God is not fair is God. Your post sounds like to be, God is not fair to all! When God is fair to all and has no respect of persons, As anyone better than anyone else! Anyone better than anyone else Luke 18:9-14?
God has put forth love and mercy to all through Son Jesus, for all to respond to and do the same in willing trust to God too, thank you. Otherwise God is not Fair
Thanks, just the view I have gotten from your post, no offense meant
Click to expand...
Matthew 9:13 speaks about God's mercy as God's spiritual principle of kindness and compassion, Jesus was asking he desires to see his father's mercy in people, which says to me his father was providing mercy to his people but Jesus wasn't seeing it.
 
Jordon said:
Matthew 9:13 speaks about God's mercy as God's spiritual principle of kindness and compassion, Jesus was asking he desires to see his father's mercy in people, which says to me his father was providing mercy to his people but Jesus wasn't seeing it.
Click to expand...

Jesus only trusted Father period, Jesus asked Father for anything and everything, according to Daddy's will, "nevertheless Father, not my will your will be done"
Father's will, to keep anyone of us from perishing. So Jesus went to that cross willingly to reconciled us all unto Father first (2 Cor 5:17-20), where new life begins in anyone Father sees as sincere and not want to use religion or anyone for any self gain. These that trust, get/are born new by Father in risen Son and are saved by God not self or anyone else. that be why God called Saul to be Paul.
I see Dad, PaPa, Father, desires for no one to perish. Sees if ever takes away free choice in anyone, that would make anyone a puppet under his thrall, not love and mercy at all Which Satan wanted, might still want, even though now defeated in the resurrection of Son to lead for all who choose to believe God over this world we are in and not of anymore. The death I think Satan and those Pharisees there then thought they won, once dead, until seen him risen as in Col 2 tells me of.

See, I see Jesus was there with Father and saw Father wanted no one to perish, yet saw the evil going on all over the place and saw, Father not want to pick a brother over another brother, where one dies and the other lives. God has more than two children. God is fair!
Put you in this place, you have two children, one gets to live, one has to die. You see it? Will you pick one over the other? Can you? God can't. So Son came to take everyone's deserved death place, once for all Hebrews 10:10. That is done. Now new life offered for everyone to choose and not misuse it and love in God's real love 1 Cor 13:4-7
Thanks Jordan a pleasure posting with you
 
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ForestGreenCook said:
Matt 22:14 - Many are called (verse 11 - some that are called did not have on a wedding garment [ref; Col:12 - the elect of God]. Rom 8:29-30- God foreknew, predestinated, called, justified, and glorified. Christ only died for those that His Father gave him and Jesus said all that he died for, he would not lose any of them, but would raise them all up at the last day - John 6:37-39. God blinded the eyes from the knowledge of Christ's doctrine because of their turning away from him to worshiping idols. They are still part of the elect that Jesus died for. They are the many called, and the few chosen are the remnant of spiritual Israel who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ - Zephaniah 3:11-13.
Click to expand...

It was pointed out to me recently that Rev. 3:3-5 indicates everyone's name may be in the Book of Life until it is erased because
they did not truly receive Christ and cease doing evil (Matt. 7:21-23, 1John 1:6-10 and 2:1-2).
 
ForestGreenCook said:
All of the scriptures must harmonize in order to portray the truths contained in the doctrine of Jesus Christ. If all mankind has a choice in accepting the truths in the scriptures, then how do you interpret 1 Cor 2:14?. God says that his ways are higher than our ways. (Isa 55:9) That is why we have to have faith in his judgements.
Click to expand...

Judgement, Died once for us all Hebrews 10:10. Left for all too make a choice life or death
everyday under Grace we all have this choice to make. Today again is the day, since not made yet. If have, God got our backs to teach us each personally new. Phil 1:6, 1 John 2:27
unfortunately, there are those that choose self, or others here of flesh to follow and will die over playing God or following other flesh as if are God Phil 3 covers this to me
Thanks for wanting convo. I am willing to learn and share, all having the freedom choice to choose freely and make mistakes along the way. I see those that Will not quit belief to God won by Son for them will see through the ripped Veil and be more in love than ever before God's love as in 1 Cor 13:4-7, and learn verse 13
Yes, there are those that do things evilly, unfortuantely, as God will say to these, go away, I never knew you. And these will say, but I did this and that in. your name. Their, motives were not for Love of God to save everyone that choose to believe God in risen Son. Their motives were/are for selfishness to get by here and now, not concerned about life after death. money be their God.
I am thankful to Father and Son as Won for us all Hebrews 10, John 1:29 John 19:30 I asked for new life in the risen Son, God gave it and gives it freely to all that believe as God sees who will not misuse it. Ones that do not get what asking for or asked for. Don not get it, because they only want to spend it on their own desires
Phil 3, give up on self, let go of self, let go of religion, do not be under Law. Uphold Law, not be under it, thanks
I gave up Law to win Christ
 
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