A Few of the Scriptures that Make me Post-Millennial

[Ethan1942]

No Paul didn't speak English and he uses a different than Jesus did. The two different words are both translated to English is some translations as world.

BDAG
kosmos in Rom. 1:8 - planet earth as a place of inhabitation, the world

oikoumene in Matt 24:14 - the earth as inhabited area, exclusive of the heavens above and nether regions, the inhabited earth, the world

In the BDAG, the actual definition is given in italics.

Your argument falls apart apart from this because of Col. 1:23 -

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (Col 1:23, KJV)

More than likely, "world" in Matt. 24:14 was referring to the Roman Empire and the same with Rom. 1:8. So, Romans 1:8 surely still fulfills the prophecy of Matt. 24:14. The verse in Colossians is quite emphatic.

 

[Dirtman]

BDAG
kosmos in Rom. 1:8 - planet earth as a place of inhabitation, the world

oikoumene in Matt 24:14 - the earth as inhabited area, exclusive of the heavens above and nether regions, the inhabited earth, the world

In the BDAG, the actual definition is given in italics.

Your argument falls apart apart from this because of Col. 1:23 -

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (Col 1:23, KJV)

More than likely, "world" in Matt. 24:14 was referring to the Roman Empire and the same with Rom. 1:8. So, Romans 1:8 surely still fulfills the prophecy of Matt. 24:14. The verse in Colossians is quite emphatic.

Except that you left out the narrow sense of the word Kosmos. Which is the idiomatic sense in which Paul was using. Which is gathered by simple reading comprehension. Because Paul had no knowing of what was being spoken of on the Yucatan peninsula.

 

[Ethan1942]

So what? Take a look at the Vulgate? I've also seen 'rapture' used of the catching away in an English Bible Commentary from the 1700s before John Darby was alive.



So it sounds like you do believe in the rapture. As a former dispensationalists, weren't taught that the rapture refers to 'harpazo' in this passage? The pre-tribbers even say 'pre-tribulational rapture.' There whole end times scenario is not 'the rapture.' The 'rapture' refers to the catching up of them that believe at Christ's coming. The term existed before Darby's pre-trib theory.



The other dead aren't mentioned. Two resurrections are mentioned in the book of Revelation.



That's good.



'Day' can refer to 24 hours or a period of time, depending on the context. Revelation parses it out into two resurrections. But as far as believers go, Paul says they will be caught up/raptured, to met the Lord in the air.


And if you say you don't believe in the rapture to pre-trib folks, that really does sound kind of heretical. You are saying you do not believe the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

Yes, the word "rapture" is used in older commentaries prior to dispensationalism, but not in the same sense as the dispensationalists.

No, Revelation 20 does not refer to two resurrections. There is nothing there about a second resurrection.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5, KJV)

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Rev 20:14, KJV)

 

[Ethan1942]

Except that you left out the narrow sense of the word Kosmos. Which is the idiomatic sense in which Paul was using. Which is gathered by simple reading comprehension. Because Paul had no knowing of what was being spoken of on the Yucatan peninsula.

Do you not realize how silly your last sentence sounds speaking of the Holy Spirit inspired words of the Apostle Paul?

 

[Dirtman]

So because we know Paul had no way of knowing what was being said world wide in any literal fashion; we know he was using an idiom, kind of like saying; everyone is talking about it. Well... Probably not everyone literally because its highly likely that there are some who don't even know. Kind of like some folks dont seem to understand context or idioms.

 

[PennEd]

find the 1000 years of Revelation 20 to be the period from Acts 2:34-35 until 1 Cor 16:24-27, the time between the 1st and 2nd advents. It is to be understood in the same way as the 1000 in Psa. 50:10; 91:7; 105:8; Isa 30:17; 60:22. The symbolism of Revelation is taken mainly from the OT.

Complete and utter private interpretations and "allegory, or symbolism" to fit a false doctrine.
Here is the passage. How you contrived the interpretation you did is beyond me.
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Spending the first 30 years of my life in dispensationalism I can tell you that what I quoted in the clear statements is denied by dispensationalists. Dispensationalists are waiting for Jesus to be king on the throne and reigning in some future 1000 year kingdom in Israel and deny that Christ is king and reigns now.

You are so mixed up, and in such error, it will be very difficult to guide you out of it.
Luke 1:30-33

New King James Version

30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”


Did Gabriel lie to Mary?

If not, when did Jesus sit on King David's throne?

 

[Dirtman]

Do you not realize how silly your last sentence sounds speaking of the Holy Spirit inspired words of the Apostle Paul?

So you think that the Holy Spirit told Paul that literally the entire world, and everyone in it, was talking about the faith of the Roman church???

And my statement is silly???

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

there are several Disciples of John who claim it was widely known that 1 day = 1,000 years meant the 7 day Creation resembled the 6,000 years of human history followed by a day of rest known as the 1,000 year Reign with Christ.

these were men closest to the factual SOURCE, the Apostle John, than anyone of us. they claim from day 1 of Creation until the Second Coming of Jesus is exactly 6,000 years. then the 1,000 year reigns.

Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Ephraim, and Papias, all directly and indirectly related to the Apostle John [wrote Book of Revelation in 95 AD] claiming at the 6,000 year Mark from Day 1 of Creation the Second Coming happens and the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus begins!

 

[Runningman]

there are several Disciples of John who claim it was widely known that 1 day = 1,000 years meant the 7 day Creation resembled the 6,000 years of human history followed by a day of rest known as the 1,000 year Reign with Christ.

these were men closest to the factual SOURCE, the Apostle John, than anyone of use. they claim from day 1 of Creation until the Second Coming of Jesus is exactly 6,000 years. then the 1,000 year reigns.

Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Ephraim, and Papias, all directly and indirectly related to the Apostle John [wrote Book of Revelation in 95 AD] claiming at the 6,000 year Mark from Day 1 of Creation the Second Coming happens and the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus begins!

We can calculate that though. Depending on the source, we hit the 6,000 year mark at some point within 10 years or so. Don’t you think we should be very cautious about predicting the return of Christ?

 

[Ethan1942]

So you think that the Holy Spirit told Paul that literally the entire world, and everyone in it, was talking about the faith of the Roman church???

And my statement is silly???

The world the disciples heard Jesus speak to in Matt. 24:14 is obviously the same world Paul refers to, the known world, the Roman Empire and lands bordering that. So, what Jesus said was fulfilled by the time of Paul. So, Matt. 24:14 has been completed, fulfilled if language means anything at all.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I was taught by the Apostle John, himself, that after the resurrection of the dead, Jesus will personally Reign for one thousand years.

Papias, Fragment 6

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

We can calculate that though. Depending on the source, we hit the 6,000 year mark at some point within 10 years or so. Don’t you think we should be very cautious about predicting the return of Christ?

how am i doing the calculating when i am quoting Church Fathers?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I was taught by the Apostle John, himself, that after the resurrection of the dead, Jesus will personally Reign for one thousand years.

Papias, Fragment 6

i believe this says it all right here concerning this discussion!

Amongst these he says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I was taught by the Apostle John, himself, that after the resurrection of the dead, Jesus will personally Reign for one thousand years.

Papias, Fragment 6

The problem with Papias is that he admits in his writings that he did not know the Apostles first-hand... (Just a heads up)

 

[Runningman]

how am i doing the calculating when i am quoting Church Fathers?

You’re not doing that. My apologies if I came off saying you were because that was not my intention. I just mean that if what you’re saying is correct, after 6,000 years there’s the kingdom, then a rough estimate can be produced. I am just throwing caution to the wind.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

i believe this says it all right here concerning this discussion!

Amongst these he says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth.

Justin Martyr (c.100-c.165) shared Papias’s millennial expectation. In his Dialogue with Trypho, Justin affirmed his expectation that the faithful departed would rise from the dead and reign with Christ for a thousand years in a rebuilt Jerusalem.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The problem with Papias is that he admits in his writings that he did not know the Apostles first-hand... (Just a heads up)

thank you!

but justin martyr believed him.

Justin Martyr (c.100-c.165) shared Papias’s millennial expectation. In his Dialogue with Trypho, Justin affirmed his expectation that the faithful departed would rise from the dead and reign with Christ for a thousand years in a rebuilt Jerusalem.

 

[presidente]

The problem with Papias is that he admits in his writings that he did not know the Apostles first-hand... (Just a heads up)

Can you cite a source for this?

 

[Magenta]

So you think that the Holy Spirit told Paul that literally the entire world,
and everyone in it, was talking about the faith of the Roman church???

And my statement is silly???

Clearly hyperbole is a literary device used at times by the author/s of Scripture.
Just as is/are prose, poetry, parallelisms, metaphors, similes, euphemisms,
idioms, personification, and parables (there may be others ). Chiasms,
acrostics, alliteration, allusion, imagery, paradox... to name a few more

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

we have this on record:
1. Eusebius admits that Papias learned directly from “the elder John” mentioned in the above quote.

2. Did papias know the Apostle John?

According to the 2nd-century theologian St. Irenaeus, Papias had known the Apostle John.
The 4th-century church historian Eusebius of Caesarea critically records that Papias derived his material not only from St. John.