A complex question about free will and Calvinism
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The Bible says those who sin are slaves to sin. Are slaves free?
God makes it possible for us to choose Him.
Our own natural will is hostile to Him.
God makes it possible for us to choose Him.
Our own natural will is hostile to Him.
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hang on.
that's called "determinism"
Neils Bohr & Albert Einstein famously argued about this, writing letters back and forth to each other. this was in the days quantum theory was being developed. Einstein argued that the universe was deterministic, and Bohr disagreed. Einstein lost the argument.
this is the context of the quote you may have heard:
that's called "determinism"
Neils Bohr & Albert Einstein famously argued about this, writing letters back and forth to each other. this was in the days quantum theory was being developed. Einstein argued that the universe was deterministic, and Bohr disagreed. Einstein lost the argument.
this is the context of the quote you may have heard:
Einstein wrote, "God does not play dice with the universe"
Bohr replied, "Who is Einstein to tell God what to do?"
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Physics and Metaphysics or Theology are unrelated. And the Big Bang is simply a myth. Also the TV series by that name is simply annoying.
For the truth of the matter Christians (at least) should rely wholly on the written Word of God -- a divine revelation. Only God -- the triune Godhead -- was present at creation. And there was no Big Bang. Furthermore God created mankind in His own image and likeness. Which implies free will. But free will is confirmed in the fact that God gave Adam and Eve just one commandment and they disobeyed Him. Had they not had free will they would have done exactly as they were commanded.
The Calvinistic notion of "Total Depravity" is not biblical at all. The fallen human race does have free will, and all men are commanded to repent. Which means that all men in their lost condition can respond to the Gospel. They can either obey or disobey the Gospel. Otherwise the preaching of the Gospel would be pointless.
For the truth of the matter Christians (at least) should rely wholly on the written Word of God -- a divine revelation. Only God -- the triune Godhead -- was present at creation. And there was no Big Bang. Furthermore God created mankind in His own image and likeness. Which implies free will. But free will is confirmed in the fact that God gave Adam and Eve just one commandment and they disobeyed Him. Had they not had free will they would have done exactly as they were commanded.
The Calvinistic notion of "Total Depravity" is not biblical at all. The fallen human race does have free will, and all men are commanded to repent. Which means that all men in their lost condition can respond to the Gospel. They can either obey or disobey the Gospel. Otherwise the preaching of the Gospel would be pointless.
ok, if that statement is true, then what does this mean -
that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead
(Romans 1:19-20, kjv)
?(Romans 1:19-20, kjv)
No, it’s not circular.....it’s foundational to ALL creation.....love.
Human reasoning is blind to love because God has hidden Himself...even in plain sight.
Only those that CHOOSE to know and love God will find Him.
Your philosophical hamster wheel will keep you busy going around in circles but, you will only be right where you began.......knowing nothing.
1 John 4:19
LOVE has to have a FREE WILL CHOICE.
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Hello LostSoul, it would be helpful to understand what you mean by, "true free will" My understanding is that whenever someone is capable of choosing what he/she desires the most at a given moment in time, their will is "free". Do you have the same or a different understanding of "free will" (and if different, what is your definition of "free will")
Calvinism is a systematic theology, so in the end, who cares Quite frankly, what I've seen "undermined" most often where Calvinism is concerned isn't Calvinism, rather, it's what people "think" Calvinism is & what it teaches, because there is so much confusion and misunderstanding about what it actually teaches (sometimes it seems, even among those who call themselves Calvinists).
That being the case, why not set aside Calvinism (and every other systematic theology) and simply focus on the Bible and what it has to say about this topic instead?
~Deut
p.s. - if you want this to continue to be a discussion about Calvinism, you should explain what 'you' believe Calvinism teaches concerning free will, so that we can all start out on the same page with you.
.
My understanding is that whenever someone is capable of choosing what he/she desires the most at a given moment in time, their will is "free". Do you have the same or a different understanding of "free will" (and if different, what is your definition of "free will") Calvinism is a systematic theology, so in the end, who cares
Quite frankly, what I've seen "undermined" most often where Calvinism is concerned isn't Calvinism, rather, it's what people "think" Calvinism is & what it teaches, because there is so much confusion and misunderstanding about what it actually teaches (sometimes it seems, even among those who call themselves Calvinists). That being the case, why not set aside Calvinism (and every other systematic theology) and simply focus on the Bible and what it has to say about this topic instead?
~Deut
p.s. - if you want this to continue to be a discussion about Calvinism, you should explain what 'you' believe Calvinism teaches concerning free will, so that we can all start out on the same page with you.
.
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
There is no "ism" that is "all truth". All "isms" begin with a grain of truth. However, at some point, there is a straying from truth and the further along that "ism" path a person goes, the person ends up lost.
It is amazing to me to find that as we read God's Word and truly consider what it is that God wants us to know, God then works in our hearts to increase our understanding of His Way and His Truth.
And, yes, it is a lifetime of learning and each time God reveals more of Himself to us, we are ever more amazed at God's magnificence.
Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
It is amazing to me to find that as we read God's Word and truly consider what it is that God wants us to know, God then works in our hearts to increase our understanding of His Way and His Truth.
And, yes, it is a lifetime of learning and each time God reveals more of Himself to us, we are ever more amazed at God's magnificence.
Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
I must admit I know next to nothing on particles..etc etc
But I do know that even the smallest particle is upheld by Jesus. If Jesus stopped upholding the universe the particle would also cease to be.
---- In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. - Hebrews 1:1-4.
---- He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. - Colossians 1:17.
---- But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. - 2 Peter 3:7.
All I can say is everyday I freely choose to thank Jesus for what he has,is and will do
But I do know that even the smallest particle is upheld by Jesus. If Jesus stopped upholding the universe the particle would also cease to be.
---- In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. - Hebrews 1:1-4.
---- He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. - Colossians 1:17.
---- But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. - 2 Peter 3:7.
All I can say is everyday I freely choose to thank Jesus for what he has,is and will do
Hello LostSoul, it would be helpful to understand what you mean by, "true free will" My understanding is that whenever someone is capable of choosing what he/she desires the most at a given moment in time, their will is "free". Do you have the same or a different understanding of "free will" (and if different, what is your definition of "free will")
Calvinism is a systematic theology, so in the end, who cares Quite frankly, what I've seen "undermined" most often where Calvinism is concerned isn't Calvinism, rather, it's what people "think" Calvinism is & what it teaches, because there is so much confusion and misunderstanding about what it actually teaches (sometimes it seems, even among those who call themselves Calvinists).
That being the case, why not set aside Calvinism (and every other systematic theology) and simply focus on the Bible and what it has to say about this topic instead?
~Deut
p.s. - if you want this to continue to be a discussion about Calvinism, you should explain what 'you' believe Calvinism teaches concerning free will, so that we can all start out on the same page with you.
.
My understanding is that whenever someone is capable of choosing what he/she desires the most at a given moment in time, their will is "free". Do you have the same or a different understanding of "free will" (and if different, what is your definition of "free will") Calvinism is a systematic theology, so in the end, who cares
Quite frankly, what I've seen "undermined" most often where Calvinism is concerned isn't Calvinism, rather, it's what people "think" Calvinism is & what it teaches, because there is so much confusion and misunderstanding about what it actually teaches (sometimes it seems, even among those who call themselves Calvinists). That being the case, why not set aside Calvinism (and every other systematic theology) and simply focus on the Bible and what it has to say about this topic instead?
~Deut
p.s. - if you want this to continue to be a discussion about Calvinism, you should explain what 'you' believe Calvinism teaches concerning free will, so that we can all start out on the same page with you.
.
Hi Deuteronomy,
I enjoyed your post. The only one thing I noticed is you say that some people basically debate against Calvinism without knowing what it is. I agree
. (and vice versa)But I would have to point out to you that the reformed view of Faith is not a 'Systematic Theology'. Are Anglican,Baptist,Methodist,Lutheran systematic theologies? Like reformed they do have systematic theology books.
Systematic theology can be a good study help an example:
If I where to ask you to tell me what the whole bible says about Jesus, your answer simply put would be a systematic theology.
So for anyone don't ignore systematic theology..its a beneficial help...if you like a lot of reading that is lol