A brother from Nairobi, Kenya shares his conviction about the Bible Version Issue
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Geneva Bible - The Bible that Changed the World
Recognizing that the Geneva Bible and its notes were undermining the authority of the monarchy, King James I of England commissioned the "Authorized Version," commonly known as the King James Bible, as its replacement. The King James Version did not include any of the inflammatory footnotes, of course, but it also altered key translations to make them seem more favorable to episcopal and monarchial forms of government.
But the people were not fooled.
The Pilgrims and Puritans preferred the Geneva Bible over the King James Bible, not trusting the king's purported good faith. The Geneva Bible was brought over on the Mayflower, and it is not an exaggeration to say that the Geneva translation and footnotes were the biblical foundation for the American Republic.
D
If I can achieve a perfect state, then I have no need of Jesus and Jesus died in vain as others can attain a state of perfection. In other words, if I can acheive perfection:
1) the death on the cross of Christ was a futile act.
2) John 3:16 is a lie.
This is why your teaching of we can be perfect is a satanic lie.
1) the death on the cross of Christ was a futile act.
2) John 3:16 is a lie.
This is why your teaching of we can be perfect is a satanic lie.
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yikes, eh?
getting more serious daily.
the KJV Bible had to become perfect - just like Jesus had to become perfect through a prcoess? oh MY.
......
the fully revealed PLAN OF GOD is perfect (complete) - téleios
téleios
Thayer's Definition
brought to its end, finished
wanting nothing necessary to completeness
perfect
that which is perfect
consummate human integrity and virtue
of men
full grown, adult, of full age, mature
getting more serious daily.
the KJV Bible had to become perfect - just like Jesus had to become perfect through a prcoess? oh MY.
......
the fully revealed PLAN OF GOD is perfect (complete) - téleios
téleios
Thayer's Definition
brought to its end, finished
wanting nothing necessary to completeness
perfect
that which is perfect
consummate human integrity and virtue
of men
full grown, adult, of full age, mature
it does?
no, man. it doesn't
unless you have some funky KJV with margin notes.
if it does, it really is a bad translation.
the KJV doesn't "teach" a pretrib rapture.
ridiculous.
no, man. it doesn't
unless you have some funky KJV with margin notes.
if it does, it really is a bad translation.
the KJV doesn't "teach" a pretrib rapture.
ridiculous.
Zone, yes it does ma'am. The King James Holy Bible does indeed teach a Pre-trib. Rapture.
Premillennialism is the only way. Because it is the Biblical teaching that the Lord Jesus Christ will rule and reign on this earth for 1, 000 years.
Yes perfection and inspiration did come in the original autohraphs. And just as God was able to inspire His word in the original autographs, God also was able to keep His words through each generation.
And it is not just the message that counts. It is the words. Again Agricola, God did not promise to preserve His message, but God promised to preserve His words. So we must have them.
Psalm 12:6-7 KJV
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [7] Thou shalt keep them, O Lord , thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Agricola, it is clear that you just do not understand the real issue here. Like I said before, any Christian with an ounce of discernment should be able to spot the corruption in the modern versions that are based on the Vatican's corrupt text.
And it is not just the message that counts. It is the words. Again Agricola, God did not promise to preserve His message, but God promised to preserve His words. So we must have them.
Psalm 12:6-7 KJV
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [7] Thou shalt keep them, O Lord , thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Agricola, it is clear that you just do not understand the real issue here. Like I said before, any Christian with an ounce of discernment should be able to spot the corruption in the modern versions that are based on the Vatican's corrupt text.
There you go again, repeating things over and over again is not going to make it right.
I told you many times that you can not even get the basics right, so How can I beleive what you say.
Yet again you make disgusting claims which can harm a Christians faith, you claim that "Any Christian with an ounce of discernment should be able to spot the corruption...."
UTTER CRAP. This is disgusting of you, really below the belt, I am disgusted with you. Its typical of cults though, yet again you continue to claim God is on your side, and anyone who is not agreeing with you must be failing and faltering their faith, utter crap and disgusting.
FInally I think you missed this, so I will post again, but then you have habbit of failing to comment on anything too challenging and things you do not have a cut and paste from your cult to reply with.
AS I keep on telling you, if you can not get basic facts right and are unable to do basic study or research then I will ignore everything else you have to say, as I keep saying, if someone thinks say 230+230 =250 then you can not trust them to teach you math.
This rant about shakespeare, did you think this all by yourself or is it something your cult drums into you? Only you really should check your so called facts before stating them as fact and making stupid statements about it.
What do you make of your facts now? (See image)
I told you many times that you can not even get the basics right, so How can I beleive what you say.
Yet again you make disgusting claims which can harm a Christians faith, you claim that "Any Christian with an ounce of discernment should be able to spot the corruption...."
UTTER CRAP. This is disgusting of you, really below the belt, I am disgusted with you. Its typical of cults though, yet again you continue to claim God is on your side, and anyone who is not agreeing with you must be failing and faltering their faith, utter crap and disgusting.
FInally I think you missed this, so I will post again, but then you have habbit of failing to comment on anything too challenging and things you do not have a cut and paste from your cult to reply with.
AS I keep on telling you, if you can not get basic facts right and are unable to do basic study or research then I will ignore everything else you have to say, as I keep saying, if someone thinks say 230+230 =250 then you can not trust them to teach you math.
This rant about shakespeare, did you think this all by yourself or is it something your cult drums into you? Only you really should check your so called facts before stating them as fact and making stupid statements about it.
What do you make of your facts now? (See image)
Yeah, I said this before, the truth bears repeating.
What basics? List them.
Yep. That is correct sir. If you have spiritual discernment and some common sense, then you should be able to see the attacks that the NIV makes on the Lord Jesus Christ's deity.
But it seems that you just don't care. It seems as if it is a non-issue with you. Well Agricola, it may not be an issue with you. But it is a big issue with me when counterfeit bibles are attacking my Lord and Saviour.
It is just pathetic how you and other alexandrians continue to defend these corrupt bibles such as the NIV.
Well Agricola, at least I have a perfect standard and a Final Written Authority that I try to submit to and to conform to.
Now what do you have sir? Do you have an absolute perfect standard? Do you have a perfect Final Authority?
Or have you just set up your own mind as your Final Authority?
Well things like what? Also, I see you did not respond to some of the things which I posted.
Well if you are going to ignore everything else I have to say, then why continue this discussion?
I bet you did not even watch that video I posted where Bryan Denlinger documents the errors of a Teen Edition of the NIV now did you? Most likely not. You talk about doing research and study and all this other stuff and yet you won't even take 10 minutes to watch a video showing the error and corruption of the NIV. How sad.
You know Agricola, you sure have been bringing up Math and Numbers a lot in here. Why don't you check into the King James Code. And do some research into it?
You may learn something sir.
Well what do you know. There is a modern translation of Shakespeare! How about that!
Well I was wrong on this point about Shakespeare. Obviously someone already took it upon themselves to modernize Shakespeare's work. And yes I should have checked into this a little more.
Consider this though Agricola, how many different modern translations are there of Shakespeare? Take his book Romeo and Juliet for Example, Is it anywhere near the amount of modern English bibles (230+)? Just something to consider sir.
And I seriously had not heard about Shakespeare being updated. So it is obvious that I was ignorant about these modernized works of Shakespeare. But here is something else to consider Agricola. I did not state the thing about Shakespeare as fact. I just simply had not heard of anyone trying to update the language of Shakespeare. Of course now I am aware that someone did, being that you brought these modern works to my attention. But again, I can see how you took it as though I was. And again, I was wrong on this point about Shakespeare, I admit that.
And since you posted these modernized works, I looked up to see who the editor was of these and it turns that it may be a Professor of English whose main interest is in Shakespeare. Quite interesting. Now I am not exactly sure. But from what I have looked into so far, it seems that it could be this professor. Also I checked to see how recent some of these modern works are, and it seems that a lot of them are as recent as 2012. And if that is correct, well than that would mean that this project to update Shakespeare was very recent.
Now while on this point though, let me ask you this simple question Agricola. Why is there so many English translations of the Bible?
What basics? List them.
Yep. That is correct sir. If you have spiritual discernment and some common sense, then you should be able to see the attacks that the NIV makes on the Lord Jesus Christ's deity.
But it seems that you just don't care. It seems as if it is a non-issue with you. Well Agricola, it may not be an issue with you. But it is a big issue with me when counterfeit bibles are attacking my Lord and Saviour.
It is just pathetic how you and other alexandrians continue to defend these corrupt bibles such as the NIV.
Well Agricola, at least I have a perfect standard and a Final Written Authority that I try to submit to and to conform to.
Now what do you have sir? Do you have an absolute perfect standard? Do you have a perfect Final Authority?
Or have you just set up your own mind as your Final Authority?
Well things like what? Also, I see you did not respond to some of the things which I posted.
Well if you are going to ignore everything else I have to say, then why continue this discussion?
I bet you did not even watch that video I posted where Bryan Denlinger documents the errors of a Teen Edition of the NIV now did you? Most likely not. You talk about doing research and study and all this other stuff and yet you won't even take 10 minutes to watch a video showing the error and corruption of the NIV. How sad.
You know Agricola, you sure have been bringing up Math and Numbers a lot in here. Why don't you check into the King James Code. And do some research into it?
You may learn something sir.
Well what do you know. There is a modern translation of Shakespeare! How about that!
Well I was wrong on this point about Shakespeare. Obviously someone already took it upon themselves to modernize Shakespeare's work. And yes I should have checked into this a little more.
Consider this though Agricola, how many different modern translations are there of Shakespeare? Take his book Romeo and Juliet for Example, Is it anywhere near the amount of modern English bibles (230+)? Just something to consider sir.
And I seriously had not heard about Shakespeare being updated. So it is obvious that I was ignorant about these modernized works of Shakespeare. But here is something else to consider Agricola. I did not state the thing about Shakespeare as fact. I just simply had not heard of anyone trying to update the language of Shakespeare. Of course now I am aware that someone did, being that you brought these modern works to my attention. But again, I can see how you took it as though I was. And again, I was wrong on this point about Shakespeare, I admit that.
And since you posted these modernized works, I looked up to see who the editor was of these and it turns that it may be a Professor of English whose main interest is in Shakespeare. Quite interesting. Now I am not exactly sure. But from what I have looked into so far, it seems that it could be this professor. Also I checked to see how recent some of these modern works are, and it seems that a lot of them are as recent as 2012. And if that is correct, well than that would mean that this project to update Shakespeare was very recent.
Now while on this point though, let me ask you this simple question Agricola. Why is there so many English translations of the Bible?
The word perfect is found 99 times in the Scripture. And depending on what passage the word perfect is in and also depending on the context of that passage, the word perfect is defined.
Take for example:
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? - Job 1:8 (KJV)
Now what does perfect mean in this verse of Scripture?
Being that there are several definitions of the word perfect. Let us see these definitions for word perfect. These are from the Webster's 1828 Dictionary:
1. Finished; complete; consummate; not defective; having all that is requisite to its nature and kind; as a perfect statue; a perfect likeness; a perfect work; a perfect system.
2. Fully informed; completely skilled; as men perfect in the use of arms; perfect in discipline.
3. Complete in moral excellencies. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect. Matt.5.
4. Manifesting perfection.My strength is made perfect in weakness. 2 Cor.12.Perfect chord,in music, a concord or union of sounds which is perfectly coalescent and agreeable to the ear, as the fifth and the octave; a perfect consonance.
A perfect flower, in botany, has both stamen and pistil, or at least another and stigma.
Perfect tense, in grammar, the preterit tense; a tense which expresses an act completed.
PER'FECT, v.t. [L. perfectus, perficio.] To finish or complete so as to leave nothing wanting; to give to any thing all that is requisite to its nature and kind; as, to perfect a picture or statue. 2 Chron.8.
-Inquire into the nature and properties of things, and thereby perfect our ideas of distinct species.If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1 John 4.1. To instruct fully; to make fully skillful; as, to perfect one's self in the rules of music or architecture; to perfect soldiers in discipline.
So now back to the question what does the word perfect mean in Job 1:8?
Well let us look into the context here:
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? - Job 1:1-8 (KJV)
Now notice that Job is said to be a perfect and an upright man.
Definition of Upright in Webster's 1828 Dictionary is the following:
1. Erect; perpendicular to the plane of the horizon; as an upright tree; an upright post. Among mechanics, plumb.
2. Erected; pricked up; shooting directly from the body.All have their ears upright -With chatt'ring teeth and bristling hair upright.
3. Honest; just; adhering to rectitude in all social intercourse; not deviating from correct moral principles; as an upright man. Job. 1.
4. Conformable to moral rectitude. Conscience rewards upright conduct with pleasure.
Also in the passage right after Job is said to be a perfect and an upright man. Notice what else is said about Job. God says that Job also fears Him and eschews evil.
ESCHEW', v.t. To flee from; to shun; to avoid.
He who obeys, destruction shall eschew.Job--feared God and eschewed evil. Job.1.
FE'ARED, pp. Apprehended or expected with painful solicitude; reverenced.
So here are the four things that are said about Job. He is perfect, 2) he is upright, 3) he fears God, 4) and he eschews evil.
And these four things that written about Job in the Scriptures are mentioned twice in this chapter.
So when we look at the context, when Job is said to be perfect, it means he was just and honest in the sight of God. Job was a man who feared and reverenced God, and that is why he escewed (avoided) evil.
28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding. - Job 28:28 (KJV)
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. - Proverbs 3:7 (KJV)
6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil. - Proverbs 16:6 (KJV)
Now as seen already, perfect can also mean complete. Here are some of the Scriptures in the Pauline epistles where perfect is also mentioned:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. - 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (KJV)
10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. - 2 Corinthians 13:10-11 (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. - Ephesians 4:4-16 (KJV)
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. - Philippians 3:10-15 (KJV)
12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. - Colossians 4:12 (KJV)
9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. - 1 Thessalonians 3:9-13 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV)
So there you see Danschance a lot of the times where the word perfect is found in Scripture. And according to the Scriptures, a Christian can be perfect. In that he can be complete, having all he needs to live a victorious Christian life. Having all sufficiency and ability from God and from His word.
And no you cannot be perfect apart from Christ Jesus. It is being in Jesus Christ and having His word, that we as Christians can be made perfect:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. - Colossians 1:28-29 (KJV)
Danschance, your reasoning here is way off. It is simply illogical because if you allow the Scriptures to define what the word perfect is in relation to the born again Christian, it is not talking about being sinless. The context tells you that being perfect is simply being complete.
Also, only the Lord Jesus Christ was without sin.
Again, perfect does not mean sinless in the passages relating to born again Christians while on this earth. The only time we Christians will be sinless is when we are raptured and are in Heaven with with our Lord Jesus Christ.
I am not saying you can be sinless. As long as your on this earth, you will struggle with sin because of the flesh, the world and the devil.
But we can be made perfect as in mature and complete through Christ:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. - Hebrews 13:20-21 (KJV)
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. - James 1:4-5 (KJV)
Danschance, Jesus never sinned.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. - Hebrews 4:15 (KJV)
Yet what is the Scripture teaching when it says:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. - Hebrews 5:8-10 (KJV)
Obviously Danschance, perfect in this passage is not a reference to being sinless, because Jesus was already sinless. Jesus never sinned. So what is the word perfect referring to in this passage of Scripture?
I'll let you answer this question.
Indeed, Jesus always did the will of His Father. Absolutely. But again what do you think the word perfect in Hebrews 5:8-10 means?
I already did Danschance, but I will repost it here:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. - Hebrews 5:8-10 (KJV)
Danschance, learning is a process. And when Jesus is described in Hebrews 5:9 as being made perfect, well that indicates that a process took place.
Okay. Well since Brandplucked already made a post showing that modern versions are indeed Vatican versions. I will just share a link to his article that will take you to the thread where he posted it.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...nasb-holman-standard-net-etc-new-vatican.html
That should be a help to you Danschance, well that is if you are sincere about wanting to learn the truth on this issue.
Now when I say "Vatican version," I simply mean a modern version that was translated from the corrupt Westcott-Hort Greek text, which is based on the corrupt Siniaticus and Vaticanus mansucripts.
The Vaticanus manuscript was said to be found in 1481 in a Vatican libraury. Now here are some facts about this corrupt manuscript:
It omits several thousand words from the Gospels, nearly 1,000 sentences, and also 500 clauses. It omits important parts from the Gospels of Mark and Luke. And it also should be noted that there are somewhere around 600 readings in the Vaticanus mansucript which do not occur in any other manuscript.
Also here is a good video segment that you can check out on the Bible Version Issue where documentation is being given regarding the corrupt readings in the Vaticanus manuscript:
[video=youtube;DSK5ykomXLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSK5ykomXLw[/video]
Do you have a link to support this claim of yours?
D
Try this link. If you need more let me know.
LINK: "Why Did the Book of Jacob Get Changed to the Book of James?" - Probe Ministries
LINK: "Why Did the Book of Jacob Get Changed to the Book of James?" - Probe Ministries