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Since you throw Gnosticism around so much and you also threw around Manicheism, why don't you define the two for me, Try to do it without googling it.

I did? Where?

I did? Where did I say that?

Many things, including to be holy and without blame before God in love. Pure salvation language right there. Holy- Sanctified Blameless- Justified in love- Reconciled relationship. That's salvation language right there, cowboy.

Only them? Not the church at Phillippi or Galatia or Ephesus etc. And don't avoid the question. What does Paul call them in verse 33-34? ELECT. Christ is interceding for the ELECT in verses 33-34. INCLUDING THE ELECT AT THE CHURCH OF ROME THAT CONSISTED OF JEW AND GENTILE.

@throughfaith. You never answered this. Please respond.

The same Greek word eklektos is applied to the church at Collossi. Colossians 3:12...and you still are excluding some ( many) Christians from the blessings of Romans 8:28- to the end of the chapter. ( see Romans 8:33-34).

Where does it say only Jews are the Elect? You need to read the whole section of Romans 9-11, because you’re missing Paul’s intent badly.

Does it say after conversion? Nooooo! It does put foreknowledge before calling and justification, which throws a monkey wrench into your argument, though.

You show that you understand nothing of what either teaches. Both teach predestination based on foreknowledge, ( they define the term differently, though) as do all who let the Bible say what it says The only argument you have is to say the Petrine epistles are written and apply to Jewish...

I never used those words... So please provide scripture that shows predestination after conversion.

So the letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor? That’s part of Israel? No.

If predestination was after conversion, the order in Romans 8:29-30 would be called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified. Your doctrine seeks to turn Romans 8;29-30 into an illogical mess. Paul would not say foreknown and predestined before called and justified if that was the wrong...

All you have demonstrated is that predestination is before adoption, inheritance, and glorification, which I agree with. You have provided nothing that says it is after conversion. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

I don’t read commentaries. I read my Bible only.

Once again, where does scripture state that predestination comes after conversion I don’t need extrapolation, assumptions, your opinion, or huge leaps of logic. Clear scriptural demonstration of your claim that predestination is after conversion.

Weak answer. Specific book chapter and verse that says predestination is after conversion, please I’m not interested in people’s ideas of an impersonal God without a mind, nor am I interested in open theism. Btw, since you believe adoption is the redemption of our body,-‘and since that...

And while you’re at it, one verse that God does not have foreknowledge of us till after conversion. And don’t mess up and confuse ginosko and prognosis again.

Name one place where it says predestination happens after conversion. Just one. I have asked for this numerous times, and you have failed to show in scripture that predestination happens after conversion. Cite a place in the Bible where that is taught. Put up or stop making the claim.

And I guess that a charge may be laid against Gentile Christians, because Paul only mentions the elect when he says who shall lay a charge against Gods elect. That doesn’t apply to us, huh? And the phrase,if God is for us who can be against us? Doesn’t apply to us either? Is that your...