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And they all claim that they believe. The irony.

22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared (Passive voice)for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared(active voice) beforehand...

Just to be clear. Those were Calvins words. Not mine. I totally and completely reject that heresy.

, "The only time free-will might be reasonably asserted to have existed was in Adam before the fall. Adam could have resisted if he would, since he fell merely by his own will. In this integrity man was endowed with free-will, by which, if he had chosen, he might have obtained eternal life."...

"The reprobate like the elect are appointed to be so by the secret council of God's will" (Calvin's Institutes II, chapter xxii, page 11) and "...their doom was fixed from all eternity and nothing in them could transfer them to a contrary class..." (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter iii, page 4)...

"The reprobate like the elect are appointed to be so by the secret council of God's will" (Calvin's Institutes II, chapter xxii, page 11) and "...their doom was fixed from all eternity and nothing in them could transfer them to a contrary class..." (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter iii, page 4)...

According to Calvinism.....billions and trillions? Didn't ya know God predestined spiritual death for the majority before the foundation of the world?

I agree. However, in Calvin's institutes "tulip" is taught. Beza unscrambled the false theology and streamlined it for the suckers.

I agree. Based on Gods character and nature and How He deals with mankind throughout His word.....It was no surprise to them after eating the fruit(a fig IMO.) God most likely explained, in detail, what the specifics of 'death' entailed. Adam was not deceived. And was a type of Christ. Adam...

Well said brother!

I do have a different take on it. We are physically born dichotomous......Body and soul. When we are made a new Creation/born again in Christ we become trichotomous.......body, soul and spirit. I do see this as our spirit was dead(spiritually) and is made alive the moment we personally...

As a point of historical note, Charles Taze Russell, the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, experienced this very bewilderment I have spoken of. In the book, Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom it explains, "Charles' parents sincerely believed the creeds of Christendom's churches and...

And If you think about it, their 'P' and the way they teach it topples the "t." How can a totally depraved human Who has absolutely no way of seeing anything that remotely resembles Christ.......Try to fool us by ACTING like a Christian? There would be absolutely no tares in the...

I was entrenched in the calvies/reformed theology. If you go down the rabbit hole and reach the calvies dungeon.....It's not "preservation." It is closer to the Armins "loss of salvation." The calvies....... IF you don't persevere in the faith and produce the works that they require to see from...

What do they tell an unbeliever who asks them," What must I do to be saved?" It's a grim message if they tell the unbeliever what they have been espousing on this thread. And most of them KNOW the conundrum they are in.

Just think. If (and it's not) their order is right, regeneration THEN belief. There would be a regenerated UNBELIEVER.For a minute? For a second? For a nano second? No matter what, there would be a time that there would be an unbelieving born again individual in their theology. Nonsense. That...

Samuel M. Zwemer, (expert on the Muslim mind)"The terminology of their teaching is Calvinistic, but its practical effect is pure fatalism. Most Muslim sects 'deny all free agency in man and say that man is necessarily constrained by the force of God's eternal and immutable decree to act as he...

Just as well live it up while we can! Man, what a hopeless and miserable message that is for unbelievers......But that is what happens to us when we are creature focused rather than Creator focused. Isaiah 53:6 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned - every one - to his own way...

Yeppers. They seem to forget that the clay stays pliable and moldable while on the potters wheel. Some get spoiled and restarted. Interesting note......God messed up and spoiled it? Nope. The clay has a mind of its own. 2 Tim 2~~20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and...

Jan 31, 2024 #171 Kroogz said: What must I do to be saved? ForestGreenCook Well-known member Jul 8, 20188,4411,213113 If you are referring to eternally, nothing. ~~~~~~~~ At least he was honest about it. The non-answers from the other posters on this thread say a LOT.