Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Kroogz said:
You guys hate the Armins. But you have everything in common with them in the end.

You require just as much morality as the Armins do for salvation. And see morality and sin as salvation.

You guys consistently and constantly LEAVE the Lord Jesus Christ out of salvation.
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Another bald-faced lie by a FWer! How can you say that any Reformed believer leaves Christ out of salvation when it the Reformed who teach and preach the efficacy of Christ's atonement for his sheep?
 
Jordon said:
Right ok so the point is that it's not man can't understand the gospel it's the fact he doesn't want.

Got it thanks, well you could also say the fact he doesn't want to is also cuz he doesn't understand it's true.
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The flesh does not understand nor care for the things of the spirit the scriptures made that clear the issue is that they reject the scriptures and try to overcomplicate things when the word of God is plain and simple here
 
cv5 said:
These are all audio files for listening. All that you need to do is open and hit PLAY.
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Ok but I want to see you prove me wrong yourself I will listen to it but if you yourself are unable to debunk the verses and points I made then it seems I am in the right here. I don't understand how you can just reject God's word like that the scriptures are clear I cannot imagine it can be any ore clear and I can if you wish provide even more scriptures to solidify my point but can you though? what scripture can you provide to prove me wrong?
 
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reneweddaybyday said:
rolleyes ... and here is what I submitted in Post 32,858 (note, this was submitted on December 27, Rufus ... 5 days before Post 33,298) not "way back in in August thousands of post ago" ...

John 17:18-23 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.​





The confusion is on your part as you seem to have overlooked/forgotten what was submitted 5 days prior to the date Post 33,298 was submitted.

I won't go so far as to insinuate that you are the liar who "needs a good memory!" ... smh





You need to continue to read the full prayer written in John 17 ... and pray that God will open your eyes to what He, as the Author of Scripture, wants you to know.

John 17:18-23 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.





All you have done in your little foray into your "Good Shepherd Discourse" is this, Rufus ...

You have completely proven that what I stated in Post 33,320 was true and accurate:

your reply in 33,306 does not refute anything posted in 33,298.​
​
you veer away from the point concerning the inestimable value of the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ and its sufficiency to cover the sin of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ...​
​
you veer away from the point concerning the breadth, length, depth, and height of God's incomprehensible love ...​
​
you veer away from what is written in John 17 ... what the Lord Jesus Christ taught His apostles on the very night He allowed Himself to be taken to be crucified ... to conflate it with what is written in John 10 ... what the Lord Jesus Christ taught the pharisees who overheard Him speak to the blind man He had just led to faith ...​
​
you veer away from the fact that what I believe does not equal my having "perverted" anything written in Scripture ...​
​
your continuous reverting back to your same ole, same ole "talking points" due to your inability to engage in meaningful dialogue is duly noted.​

repeat ... "your continuous reverting back to your same ole, same ole "talking points" due to your inability to engage in meaningful dialogue is duly noted".

.
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So, why did you write what you did in 33,298!? I was not responding to what you wrote in 32, 858! Are you now denying that you wrote what you did in 33,298?

And again, what part of Jn 17:20-21 can you not understand!?

John 17:20-21
20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
NIV

Again, I ask: Why do you conflate "those" and "their"? And v. 20 is talking about believers -- not merely knowers.

And what part of "my prayer is not for THEM alone ( the11) can't you understand?

And in v. 21, Jesus prayed for the unity of both groups -- those who would initially evangelize (the 11) and those who would believe their gospel message (the Gentile world). I suppose you will also deny the Great Commission with which Jesus charged the 11? :rolleyes:

You just don't want to believe Jesus' prayer because it wrecks FWT!
 
Genez said:
If I tell you that you are wrong about something you think you are sure about?
Does that influence your will?

Yes, it does.

But, it does not over ride your will.
Irresistible grace places God in the position of overriding a person's will.

You will deny it.
But that is what it teaches...
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And your sacred, sacrosanct "freewill" has never been overridden by anyone in authority over you? Did your parents raise you to do whatsoever you willed to do? Your parents never imposed their will upon you? They never corrected you? Rebuked you? Disciplined you?
 
Blain said:
The flesh does not understand nor care for the things of the spirit the scriptures made that clear the issue is that they reject the scriptures and try to overcomplicate things when the word of God is plain and simple here
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The point I was making is the flesh can not understand the gospel is true 🙂

Basically it's the case of doubting thomas which is unless it's not seen it wont believe. But a mind that is led by the spirit will
 
cv5 said:
Genesis 7:1.
"And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."

So explain to us ye Calvinists:
Was Noah dragged into the ark against his will?
Could Noah have refused?
Did Noah will to do His will? WILLINGLY?
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Hey Einstein, Did Noah have the fear of the Lord in his heart?
 
HeIsHere said:
I am amazed you think one verse is a doctrine.

Please explain why context is not to be considered, why no Bible scholar ever considers the original language, the audience, the surrounding text, the overall message, the style of the written expression, I will be waiting.

Yes, let us just toss out all scholarship, hermeneutics, exegesis and we can just make God's word one big contradictory mess.
Sadly, you believe what you have been told by the yes the Calvinists, rather than searching it out for yourself.
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How many verses does it take to make a teaching dogmatic?
 
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Jordon said:
being lazy is not answering his question and asking him to spend two weeks searching for your answer,

It's called the height of ignorance your post.

Because your calling him ignorant whilst being ignorant yourself
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He's a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black!
 
Rufus said:
He's a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black!
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Well its really something he shouldn't be getting to worked up about, ok he spent two weeks studying, to come to a basic conclusion, which was man can understand the gospel but he doesn't want to. I can't see how that should take two weeks myself, I think he's just milking it, coz he wants to be right. I can't have any sympathy for that, I could if he spent two weeks studying to tell us we need God and he wasn't being heard, but he's crying for the wrong reasons


But really you can read the whole Bible and realise it's all about just one simple fact, you need God, we can do nothing without him.
 
Jordon said:
Well its really something he shouldn't be getting to worked up about, ok he spent two weeks studying, to come to a basic conclusion, which was man can understand the gospel but he doesn't want to. I can't see how that should take two weeks myself, I think he's just milking it, coz he wants to be right. I can't have any sympathy for that, I could if he spent two weeks studying to tell us we need God and he wasn't being heard, but he's crying for the wrong reasons


But really you can read the whole Bible and realise it's all about just one simple fact, you need God, we can do nothing without him.
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AMEN to that, Jordon!
 
Blain said:
I fail to see how this makes the scriptures any less truem do you believe what Jesus said or not? your grasping at straws here trying to reason your way out of being incorrect but the word of God has spoken either take truth as it is or not but don't try to wiggle your way around it
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Less true in what way?

By adding detail to the truth, I was trying to disprove the truth?

I am not of your mindset, so I am failing to see what perspective you are coming from.
Mind explaining, please?
 
Rufus said:
And your sacred, sacrosanct "freewill" has never been overridden by anyone in authority over you? Did your parents raise you to do whatsoever you willed to do? Your parents never imposed their will upon you? They never corrected you? Rebuked you? Disciplined you?
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Your concept of free will is not my concept of free will.
The concept, "free will" that you keep bantering around?
I also condemn.

So, what you insist in doing?
You put us in a box, and paint on it the words... "Free Willer."

It makes you feel like you are superior when you attack.
But, you are not attacking me.

Yet, you do not care.
Why?
All you care about is maintaining your false sense of superiority that your peer-approved attacking affords you.

Feel free to respond.

Thank you ...
 
Genez said:
Your concept of free will is not my concept of free will.
The concept, "free will" that you keep bantering around?
I also condemn.

So, what you insist in doing?
You put us in a box, and paint on it the words... "Free Willer."

It makes you feel like you are superior when you attack.
But, you are not attacking me.

Yet, you do not care.
Why?
All you care about is maintaining your false sense of superiority that your peer-approved attacking affords you.

Feel free to respond.

Thank you ...
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I gave you this advice yesterday about not acting superior, and now It looks you took my advice and labelled it on to somebody eles, being called a free willer is no big deal, why does that even bother you ? Everyone has will that needs help in the flesh l, and it certainly no reason to get all emotional about.

projecting your own shortcomings onto others is like the plank scripture.
 
Jordon said:
I gave you this advice yesterday about not acting superior, and now It looks you took my advice and labelled it on to som
ebody eles, being called a free willer is no big deal, why does that even bother you ? Everyone has will that needs help in the flesh l, and it certainly no reason to get all emotional about.

projecting your own shortcomings onto others is like the plank scripture.
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You are caught up in a never ending cycle.....
Chain sinning.

It would be unreasonable for me to try to reason with you again.
 
Genez said:
Your concept of free will is not my concept of free will.
The concept, "free will" that you keep bantering around?
I also condemn.

So, what you insist in doing?
You put us in a box, and paint on it the words... "Free Willer."

It makes you feel like you are superior when you attack.
But, you are not attacking me.

Yet, you do not care.
Why?
All you care about is maintaining your false sense of superiority that your peer-approved attacking affords you.

Feel free to respond.

Thank you ...
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Quit pontificating already! Just answer my question. Did your parents raise you to do whatsoever you wanted to do whenever and wherever you wanted to? Or did they ever impose their will upon you?

Your definition of "freewill" is that fallen, corrupt, depraved, vile, wicked, evil mankind can make spiritual choices contrary to their evil nature, which is something even God Almighty cannot do.
 
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