Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blain]

That is a false Calvinist tenet.

And what you have argued is not what Paul was asserting at all, and this has been clearly explained many times on this thread.

Also see post #33866

Tell me what are >>> curiosity, intention, motivation, reason, critical thinking, analyzing, reflection, volition, examination, wonder etc.,
Basically the Calvinist creates a two-dimensional man who lives solely for sin.
However, anyone who reads Paul with understanding can see that God knows man to be very different.

Yeah, I wonder why Paul even employed "reason" if people were not seeking to learn.
Act 17:17

Is that so? how do you explain this then?
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.” – Galatians 5:17

Romans 8:5

“Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.” ​

 

[BillyBob]

Genesis 7:1.
"And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."

So explain to us ye Calvinists:
Was Noah dragged into the ark against his will?
Could Noah have refused?
Did Noah will to do His will? WILLINGLY?

You tell us, you are the FWer!

 

[Blain]

Scriptural references?

Romans 8:5

“Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.” ​

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version



14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[HeIsHere]

Is that so? how do you explain this then?
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.” – Galatians 5:17

Romans 8:5

“Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.” ​

This is guidance/teaching to the believers concerning how they are to live and walk in the Spirit... not about soteriology.

 

[HeIsHere]

Genesis 7:1.
"And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."

So explain to us ye Calvinists:
Was Noah dragged into the ark against his will?
Could Noah have refused?
Did Noah will to do His will? WILLINGLY?

God as He has chosen to reveal Himself in His own word: "If you do this then I will do that."


The god of Calvinism is so clearly different than the God of scripture.

 

[Blain]

This is guidance/teaching to the believers concerning how they are to live and walk in the Spirit... not about soteriology.

Rhe point is the flesh like I said does not desire the things of the spirit theefore unless one is called by the spirit they do not come to Christ of their own desire rather they see it as foolishness and care not for the things of the spirit.

By all means prove me wrong

 

[BillyBob]

OP: Free will is agency granted by God to all human beings. It is by this mental faculty that we know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, useful and useless, sacred and base. If you did not have the actual ability to be useful to God, using your own word which is not predetermined by God to propitiate for your sin, he could not forgive you for living in such a manner.

Knowing and doing are two different things! The law is our schoolmaster! Where in scripture does it tell us that we are saved by our schoolmaster alone?
We are unable to obey, that is exactly why we need a savior. . . .

 

[HeIsHere]

Rhe point is the flesh like I said does not desire the things of the spirit theefore unless one is called by the spirit they do not come to Christ of their own desire rather they see it as foolishness and care not for the things of the spirit.

By all means prove me wrong

That scripture in context is not concerning soteriology.
Context is important, what is the topic of the passage, how to be saved? NO it is not.

 

[Blain]

That scripture in context is not concerning soteriology.
Context is important, what is the topic of the passage, how to be saved? NO it is not.

ok how is this then? John 6:44
New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Jesus himself said this so ius Jesus a cavinist as well? also as for context while yes it is important to have that the scriptures can be applied if done correctly to more than just the context but you have yet to debunk my verses you just think it is invalid because it doesn't fit into your context box

 

[Genez]

err no, calling somebody a no good Calvinist, when hes said multiple times he's not a Calvinist, is your error to not to not see those kinds of manners as hatred, and

The fact you choose to not even acknowledge my reason for saying thats very disrespectful manners, and choose to make me look like I'm in the wrong, once again is a reflection on how you think you can just treat people as if there nobody.

It's like I said it is, your friend cv5 gives you all the reasons for you to be Mr superior, and the worst part about that is you don't have valid reason for disrespecting the people who you are, what your doing is hating innocence which the lord detests.

You are never going to pull yourself out of the cycle?
You are determined to stay in it?

 

[HeIsHere]

ok how is this then? John 6:44
New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Jesus himself said this so ius Jesus a cavinist as well? also as for context while yes it is important to have that the scriptures can be applied if done correctly to more than just the context but you have yet to debunk my verses you just think it is invalid because it doesn't fit into your context box

Most common Calvinist proof text btw.

We need to remember, scripture is not verses.

It is really incorrect to deal with with singular verses out of context (context being the sound principles of hermeneutics) that is not how any text/verse/passage is read especially the Bible.

This is being spoken to the Jews!!

The reason many of the Jews did not come to Christ is not that they were not “given” to him by the Father, but is found in their own stubborn hearts. John 5:40 says they were not willing to come to Christ, not that they could not come to Christ because they had not been “given” to him by the Father. Notice how John 5:43-47 speaks often of “belief.”
Election is simply not in the picture in this passage.
(Beyond the Fundamentals)


Next!

 

[Genez]

ok how is this then? John 6:44
New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Jesus himself said this so ius Jesus a cavinist as well? also as for context while yes it is important to have that the scriptures can be applied if done correctly to more than just the context but you have yet to debunk my verses you just think it is invalid because it doesn't fit into your context box

Jesus was confronting the Jews craze for salvation by works.
Religious leaders would supply a list of works to do, and the Jews (like good Catholics do today) would follow the script.

Works (plural) referred to a system to follow.
One work alone (believing in Christ) was outside the concept of works, though it shares a common word.

Here is the ONE WORK that Jesus said saves. And, this ONE WORK was the ultimate goal of God drawing men to Himself.

One Work. Not works.

Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, ​

that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” John 6:29​

Jesus was contrasting what God requires for salvation vs. what the religious men were requiring of their followers.

The disciples were asking their rabbi (Jesus) about what works he had in store for them, just as rabbis gave their disciples a list of works to do.

Jesus response was totally different.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

There we have it!

 

[Blain]

Most common Calvinist proof text btw.

We need to remember, scripture is not verses.

It is really incorrect to deal with with singular verses out of context (context being the sound principles of hermeneutics) that is not how any text/verse/passage is read especially the Bible.

This is being spoken to the Jews!!

The reason many of the Jews did not come to Christ is not that they were not “given” to him by the Father, but is found in their own stubborn hearts. John 5:40 says they were not willing to come to Christ, not that they could not come to Christ because they had not been “given” to him by the Father. Notice how John 5:43-47 speaks often of “belief.”
Election is simply not in the picture in this passage.
(Beyond the Fundamentals)


Next!

And the most common excuse when you cannot debunk scripture is to say it is out of context just because it is not fitting in your context box doesn't make it any less true the word of God is the word of God and I have not seen your scriptures speak on this matter nor have you been able to debunk the scriptures I provided you just ignore them and say they are invalid because context

But the thing is and maybe you don't realize this it isn't me you are speaking against it is Christ himself you can either listen to what he says and not try to worm your way out of it or you can ignore what he said but the fact is you do not ave sufficient evidence nor the scriptures to prove me wtrng

 

[Blain]

Jesus was confronting the Jews craze for salvation by works.
Religious leaders would supply a list of works to do, and the Jews (like good Catholics do today) would follow the script.

Works (plural) referred to a system to follow.
One work alone (believing in Christ) was outside the concept of works, though it shares a common word.

Here is the ONE WORK that Jesus said saves. And, this ONE WORK was the ultimate goal of God drawing men to Himself.

One Work. Not works.

Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, ​

that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” John 6:29​

Jesus was contrasting what God requires for salvation vs. what the religious men were requiring of their followers.

The disciples were asking their rabbi (Jesus) about what works he had in store for them, just as rabbis gave their disciples a list of works to do.

Jesus response was totally different.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

There we have it!

I fail to see how this makes the scriptures any less truem do you believe what Jesus said or not? your grasping at straws here trying to reason your way out of being incorrect but the word of God has spoken either take truth as it is or not but don't try to wiggle your way around it

 

[HeIsHere]

And the most common excuse when you cannot debunk scripture is to say it is out of context just because it is not fitting in your context box doesn't make it any less true the word of God is the word of God and I have not seen your scriptures speak on this matter nor have you been able to debunk the scriptures I provided you just ignore them and say they are invalid because context

But the thing is and maybe you don't realize this it isn't me you are speaking against it is Christ himself you can either listen to what he says and not try to worm your way out of it or you can ignore what he said but the fact is you do not ave sufficient evidence nor the scriptures to prove me wtrng

I am amazed you think one verse is a doctrine.

Please explain why context is not to be considered, why no Bible scholar ever considers the original language, the audience, the surrounding text, the overall message, the style of the written expression, I will be waiting.

Yes, let us just toss out all scholarship, hermeneutics, exegesis and we can just make God's word one big contradictory mess.
Sadly, you believe what you have been told by the yes the Calvinists, rather than searching it out for yourself.

 

[Blain]

I am amazed you think one verse is a doctrine.

Please explain why context is not to be considered, why no Bible scholar ever considers the original language, the audience, the surrounding text, the overall message, the style of the written expression, I will be waiting.

Yes, let us just toss out all scholarship, hermeneutics, exegesis and we can just make God's word one big contradictory mess.
Sadly, you believe what you have been told by the yes the Calvinists, rather than searching it out for yourself.

No one verse does not make a doctrine I gave you others as well in my earlier post but you rejected them as well do you not have reverence for the word of God? I gave you solid evidence and you say it is invalid because context but that isn't the point the point is not that it is out of context it is that the scriptures speak for themselves your rejected his word just to remain in your belief

And by the way I have not beentaught nor swayed by others on this matter I came to this conclusion from what the scriptures say

So I ask again do you have reverence for his word or not?

 

[cv5]

Rhe point is the flesh like I said does not desire the things of the spirit theefore unless one is called by the spirit they do not come to Christ of their own desire rather they see it as foolishness and care not for the things of the spirit.

By all means prove me wrong

Already been "proven wrong" comprehensively here in this thread dozens of times.
If you choose to dismiss all of the entries so be it. But you could take a weekend and find out. Or a week or two if necessary.

The lazy never do well as regards sound doctrine. A couple of terse soundbites is much preferred by Satan BTW.

 

[Jordon]

You are never going to pull yourself out of the cycle?
You are determined to stay in it?

Just another passing of the buck from you, rather than admit your wrong you throw people in your hole.

 

[Jordon]

Already been "proven wrong" comprehensively here in this thread dozens of times.
If you choose to dismiss all of the entries so be it. But you could take a weekend and find out. Or a week or two if necessary.

The lazy never do well as regards sound doctrine. A couple of terse soundbites is much preferred by Satan BTW.

being lazy is not answering his question and asking him to spend two weeks searching for your answer,

It's called the height of ignorance your post.

Because your calling him ignorant whilst being ignorant yourself

 

[Kroogz]

ok how is this then? John 6:44
New International Version
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Jesus himself said this so ius Jesus a cavinist as well? also as for context while yes it is important to have that the scriptures can be applied if done correctly to more than just the context but you have yet to debunk my verses you just think it is invalid because it doesn't fit into your context box

John 3:35
The Father loves the Son and has entrusted all things to His hand.

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”

John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”

John 14:10
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.