"Prayer" How did we get here?

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Jesus prayed audibly, and publicly. The admonition has to do with "that they may be seen of men." In other words,
check your motive. Jesus condemned the motivation of hypocrisy in prayer. He criticized those who prayed in public
settings, such as synagogues and on street corners, specifically to "be seen by others" and gain human applause.
Exactly.

Jesus was denouncing expressions of devotion intended to demonstrate one's godly character. Emphasising how holiness is not a public performance to obtain human approval (virtue signalling), but a deep commitment (the secret thoughts and intentions of the heart) which produces sincere action for God's recognition and glory.

If we're prohibited from vocalising our supplications, I assume I'm safe to pray with a mouthful of food while taking a swig a beer?

Praise the Lord, for nuance.
 
One more time.
I think, praying aloud is keeping Gods word true, as long as others don't hear it. Anything else isn't prayer, it's something else.
Well what about when Jesus multiplied the bread and fish? he thanked God for them right in front of a crowd and fed them all
 
Exactly.

Jesus was denouncing expressions of devotion intended to demonstrate one's godly character. Emphasising how holiness is not a public performance to obtain human approval (virtue signalling), but a deep commitment (the secret thoughts and intentions of the heart) which produces sincere action for God's recognition and glory.

If we're prohibited from vocalising our supplications, I assume I'm safe to pray with a mouthful of food while taking a swig a beer?

Praise the Lord, for nuance.

Sounds like Jesus was warning against our human nature.

You can do whatever you want. That's the beauty, Jesus is looking for those who will surrender themselves Him , daily. Jn. 6-5:6 is an authorities prescription, not a command.

But, when He tells some, I never knew you, prayer, done for the ears of others, is one of the elements that causes that to happen.
 
Well what about when Jesus multiplied the bread and fish? he thanked God for them right in front of a crowd and fed them all

Your putting Jesus in the same boat as us. He said when "YOU" pray.

And again, your getting His sayings mixed up with praying.
 
If speaking to the Father isn't prayer, what is?

My opinion is that are a little too legalistic here. Prayer can be both public and private; aloud and unspoken. Like all things, it should be done to the glory of God.

I asked that you allow me to test your faith, and you could test mine. You have yet to fulfill this. Now you want to discuss Gods truths?
 
I stand by what Jesus says in His word. I've practiced it for 38 years and have received those blessings in return .
And here you are crowing about it, demonstrating the very hypocrisy against which Jesus warned.
 
I asked that you allow me to test your faith, and you could test mine. You have yet to fulfill this. Now you want to discuss Gods truths?
We are discussing truth. You seem to have formed an entire doctrine from a singular passage.
 
Sounds like Jesus was warning against our human nature. .
Without exception.

But, when He tells some, I never knew you, prayer, done for the ears of others, is one of the elements that causes that to happen.
Needless to say that praying for the sake of being seen is a pretense. But say you and I had a disagreement, and I verbally communicated my regret to God in private, but you just so happened to overhear my prayer without my knowing of it. Would that invalidate my remorse and mean I only started praying to be heard by you?
 
Matthew 6:5-6

King James Version



5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

With this authoritive prescription given by Jesus the anointed messiah, why do most of the church world do the opposite of what He taught?

With this definition of prayer , why do we look at prayer in scripture as audible?

Why does the church world fight so vehemently for prayer in schools when it can be done anytime, anywhere, the way Jesus taught it.

Why is prayer only acceptable to the church world today if its' done exactly as Christ told us not to do it?

I put this challenge to the members. Show any biblical text that supports audible prayer. but remember the datum point Christ gave us.

And just a disclaimer, i understand that even when people are gathered into groups, they could stay true to what Jesus taught.

It does not have anything to do with the prayer being audible for if we want to say it audible it is alright.

If we want to pray in public it is alright.

Prayer in school or Church it is all right.

And they would not be forcing anyone.

Pray whether audible, not audible, anywhere, any time, around people, not around people, in a group, alone.

For prayer should not be hindered.

Which the Bible says pray without ceasing.

Wouldn't group prayer be greater than single prayer.

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Pray whether audible, not audible, anywhere, any time, around people, not around people, in a group, alone.

The lesson is do not give glory to yourself like the hypocrites for they do things to be seen of people, and go out of their way to be seen of men, for they want people to think they are something special which they like people to praise them.

Oh look at him he is such a great man of God and does many things is what they want them to say.

Which their motivation is wrong for they want glory for themselves.

They are operating from the viewpoint of the flesh.

Like the Bible says they blow the trumpet when they give alms.

And disfigure their faces when they fast so to appear they are suffering for the kingdom.

And love to pray standing in the synagogue and on the corner of the street to be seen of men.

Their motive is about getting people to notice them for what they do.

To get praise, exalt themself, give glory to themself.
 
Your putting Jesus in the same boat as us. He said when "YOU" pray.

And again, your getting His sayings mixed up with praying.
I am confused here so it is ok for Jesus to pray in front of people but not us? and how am I confusing a saying with praying? he didn't have a saying he prayed over the food
 
You need to look at the Greek. Your mixing up prayers with sayings.

I think you need to speak silently to the Holy Spirit and get truth ---Lol


If Jesus condemned the Pharisees for praying out loud, should we pray aloud?

https://www.gotquestions.org/praying-out-loud.html

There are several references in the New Testament to public prayers that are unacceptable, and it is true that Jesus condemned the Pharisees’ manner of praying.

But Jesus Himself prayed out loud on occasion (see John 17), as did the apostles (Acts 8:15; 16:25; 20:36). Acts 1:14 says, "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."

Then in verse 24, the apostles prayed together to choose someone to fill Judas' spot among the twelve. They were clearly praying together and out loud.
So, the sin was not in the public nature of the prayer or the fact that people could hear it.


In Luke 18:10-14, Jesus gives this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Notice that the tax collector also prayed aloud, but his prayer was from a humble heart, and God accepted it. The sin of the Pharisees was not public prayer but a haughty spirit.

Later, Jesus says, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows’ houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation" (Luke 20:46-47).
Here the sin is not the audible nature of the prayer but its pretentiousness.

Jesus condemns the hypocrisy of pretending to have a relationship with God while oppressing the very people He loves.

Then in Matthew 6:5, Jesus says, "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Again, Jesus is not condemning the fact that people prayed aloud, but that they were putting on a public display for their own benefit. Their motive—to be seen of men—was the problem.
Such prayer is not real prayer, but empty words meant for the ears of other people (Hebrews 10:22). Proverbs 15:29 says, "The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous."

In Ephesians 5:20, Paul instructs the church to "give thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Communal prayer is one way a local church worships God and encourages one another.

What Jesus condemns is arrogance and hypocrisy. For someone who is clearly disobedient to God to lead a public prayer as though he or she had much to brag about is the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus denounced.

To use public prayer as a means of showing off or impressing others is wrong.

But sincere prayer from a humble heart is always welcomed by God and can be an encouragement to those who hear it (Psalm 51:17).

Worth Repeating

But sincere prayer from a humble heart is always welcomed by God and can be an encouragement to those who hear it (Psalm 51:17).
 
I am confused here so it is ok for Jesus to pray in front of people but not us? and how am I confusing a saying with praying? he didn't have a saying he prayed over the food

The Greek is specific about if He's praying or saying something. The words for prayer in Greek are used 31 times, the words for sayings, things said are over 500 times. It's important in a discussion like this to see the difference.
 
Without exception.

Needless to say that praying for the sake of being seen is a pretense. But say you and I had a disagreement, and I verbally communicated my regret to God in private, but you just so happened to overhear my prayer without my knowing of it. Would that invalidate my remorse and mean I only started praying to be heard by you?

Theres laws in the spiritual realm just as real as the laws in the carnal realm.
I think Jesus meant exactly what He said, go into your closet ( within yourselves) and pray in secret, to support that spiritual law.