Your formatting makes your comments almost impossible to read. And it's still not about prophecy.
Romans 10:17, a courtroom haearing?
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My point is that there is no English word for the verb form of the noun "faith". "Believe" is the closest we have, so instead of whining that "believe" means something else and doesn't rightly mean the verb form of faith, just let it go.
Your comment is self-refuting.
This place is just impossible to have grown up conversations about scripture lol and it’s a Bible discussion forum . But yeah I guess continue arguing over words and enjoy
BDAG mentions many glosses for the Greek word ἀκοή, but none relate to a courtroom "hearing".
ἀκοή, ῆς, ἡ (in form ἀκουή as early as Hom.; freq., incl. ins, pap, LXX; PsSol 8:5; ApcSed; ApcMos 8; EpArist, Test12Patr, Philo, Joseph., Just.; Ath. [1, 2]).
① the faculty of hearing, hearing (Philo, Rer. Div. Her. 12 of images οἷς ὦτα μέν ἐστιν, ἀκοαὶ δʼ οὐκ ἔνεισιν; given by God Did., Gen. 162, 21) 1 Cor 12:17; but mng. 3 is also prob.
② the act of hearing, listening (Pla., Theaet. 142d λόγος ἄξιος ἀκοῆς; Antig. Car. 129 ἀκοῆς ἄξια; BGU 1080, 6; EpArist 142 w. ὅρασις; Jos., Ant. 8, 171; w. ὄψις 172) w. βλέμμα 2 Pt 2:8 (cp. New Docs 3, 61). ἀκοῇ ἀκούειν (Polyaenus, Exc. 55, 2; LXX) Mt 13:14; Ac 28:26 (both Is 6:9); B 9:2 (cp. Ex 15:26). εἰς ἀ. ὠτίου ὑπακούειν obey upon hearing with the ear, i.e. as soon as one hears B 9:1 (Ps 17:45; cp. 2 Km 22:45). ἀ. πίστεως hearing of faith (=that ‘hearing’ which Christians call faith) Gal 3:2, 5 (SWilliams, NTS 35, ’89, 82–93, but most prefer mng. 4b).
③ the organ w. which one hears, ear (Sappho et al.; POxy 129, 4; PGM 4, 306; 323; 2 Macc 15:39; EpArist 166) esp. pl. (Dio Chrys. 15 [32], 11; Aelian, VH 3, 1 p. 39, 21; oft. Philo; Jos., Ant. 8, 172; SibOr 4, 172; Just., D. 131, 4; Orig., C. Cels. 1, 48, 33) αἱ ἀκοαί Mk 7:35. εἰσφέρειν εἰς τὰς ἀ. bring to someone’s ears Ac 17:20 (cp. Soph., Ajax 147). εἰς τὰς ἀ. τινος in someone’s ears Lk 7:1. νωθρὸς (q.v.) ταῖς ἀ. Hb 5:11. κνήθεσθαι τὴν ἀ. have itching ears (i.e. they like to have them tickled) 2 Ti 4:3, cp. vs. 4. Fig. περιτέμνειν τὰς ἀ. circumcise the ears=make someone attentive B 9:4; 10:12.
④ that which is heard
ⓐ fame, report, rumor (Hom. et al.; Sb 7205, 8; 1 Km 2:24; 2 Km 13:30; 3 Km 2:28; 10:7) Mt 4:24; 14:1; 24:6; Mk 1:28; 13:7; 1 Cl 47:7.
ⓑ account, report, message (Thu. 1, 20, 1 ἀκοὴν δέχεσθαι of things recounted by others in the past; Just., D. 8, 4 ματαίαν ἀ. παραδεξάμενοι) πιστεύειν τῇ ἀ. (cp. Jos., C. Ap. 2, 14; Just., D. 8, 4 [Is 53:1]; Did., Gen. 218, 2) J 12:38; Ro 10:16f; 1 Cl 16:3 (all three Is 53:1). ἐξ ἀ. πίστεως as the result of a message (proclamation) which elicited (only) faith Gal 3:2, 5 (difft. Williams, 2 above). λόγος τῆς ἀκοῆς the word of proclamation (preaching) Hb 4:2. λόγος ἀκοῆς παρʼ ἡμῶν τοῦ θεοῦ the word of divine proclamation that goes out from us 1 Th 2:13 (RSchippers, NovT 8, ’66, 223–34 tradition).—AOepke, Die Missionspredigt d. Ap. Pls. 1920, 40ff.—DELG s.v. ἀκούω. M-M. TW. Sv. [Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 36). University of Chicago Press.]
As 4b explains, Romans 10:16-17 (and other passages) speak of a message preached which elicits faith. In the case of Romans 10:17, the preacher is God Himself (not the Bible). And certainly His words are the most trustworthy of all words.
The words compare to a courtroom hearing were in the Strongs 189 akoe.
We seem to have landed in the same place. In that the phrase "word of God" doesn't imply the good news and the Bible as we know it today . If it were communicating the gospel, they would have used the Greek word euaggelion.
The "word" of God phrase in Rom.10:17 is Rhema a divine message. And it can only be God Himself, Evangelion.
Thanks for taking the time do the searching.
All I could find in strongs "hearing", as in a sense of hearing. I found nothing referring to a courtroom proceeding. I'm glad we agree on one thing.
Good post. If I had seen your original post, I wouldn't have posted mine since you covered the bases quite nicely.
When we come to God in faith, we DO NOT sit in judgment of Him.
That is an absurd conclusion.
That is an absurd conclusion.
Why most of mankind? And that's why we we're sent to spread the word around the world. It's important to make sure God's word reaches parts where His word is declared not welcome so that people may hear AND believe. Be that countries today or tribes of the past. May everyone hear His word.
If someone genuinely couldn't have heard the word, or is too young to possibly understand it will be judged justly. Luke 12:38: Those who knew God's will will be judged more severely than those who didn't know God's will.
So we get from this that God understands that some haven't had the chance to hear.
David also said in 2 Samuel 12:23 that he would go to be with his son who had died before possibly understanding the word.
I would never say God is handcuffed. He states we must believe in His son to be saved, we need also the spread the word so people will know. God is aware that some people won't have had a chance at knowing Him and will act accordingly. He is in control and does what pleases Him and will continue to do so. Let's pray for all souls and get His word out wherever we can, in Jesus' name, amen...
It's the Strongs expanded, including the best of the Vines. Page 927, upper left, 7b under akoe 189. Rom. 10: 17 is akoe not akouo 191.
Can you take a snapshot with your phone and past the picture here? Also, What I posted above was for the word in question, not a different word.
I have the interlinear, so I'm positive we're talking about the Greek word "akoe".
I've been upfront about my lack of tech skills, so that pic isn't in my skill set. I still use a flip phone, and I'm using my wife's iPhone to post here.
But I can elaborate a little on the Strongs where it states [compare to a courtroom hearing]. I don't think that phrase is aimed at the actual structure of a courtroom, but a place where a decision is always made. And it states that there also.
The fact that the Greek is not highlighting "the gospel" the Greek word euagglion, but the Greek word Rhema, which alssays in the interlinear "a word of God ", not " the word of God. "
I think we're on the same page in that, "the hearing (akoe)" is the kind of hearing where a decision has to be made. And "a word of God" is from God Himself, possibly linked to the call of the Father, that must come before we can be in Christ.
He might have gotten the idea from wrongly interpreting the note below. There is no epi (επί) in Romans 10:17
3. akoe (ἀκοή, 189), “hearing,” akin to akouo, “to hear,” denotes (a) the sense of “hearing,” e.g., 1 Cor. 12:17; 2 Pet. 2:8; (b) that which is “heard,” a report, e.g., Matt. 4:24; (c) the physical organ, Mark 7:35, standing for the sense of “hearing”; so in Luke 7:1, RV, for KJV, “audience”; Acts 17:20; 2 Tim. 4:3–4 (in v. 3, lit., “being tickled as to the ears”); (d) a message or teaching, John 12:38; Rom. 10:16–17; Gal. 3:2, 5; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:2, RV, “(the word) of hearing,” for KJV, “(the word) preached.” See FAME, HEARING, PREACH, REPORT, RUMOR.
Note: In Matt. 28:14, the verb akouo is used with the preposition epi, “upon or before” (or hupo, “by,” in some mss.), lit., “if this come to a hearing before the governor.”
Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words
I found this entry in Vines:
Note: In Mat 28:14, the verb akouo is used with the preposition epi, "upon or before" (or hupo, "by," in some mss.), lit., "if this come to a hearing before the governor."
This is a passive verb which Vines converts into a noun, "a hearing". It is a bit of a stretch to convert "if this comes to the governor’s ears" (NKJV) to "come to a hearing before the governor". So I side with the translators of NKJV, NASB, NIV, HCSB, YLT, and KJV that Matthew 28:14 does not translate as rendered by Vines. But I agree with your statement that hearing God doesn't end with hearing Him. It must be followed by believing Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? (Ro 10:13–15)
Here we see salvation in reverse order. Flipping the order, we get 1) God sends people to tell others about Jesus, 2) sent ones preach the good news, 3) lost people hear about Jesus, 4) some lost people believe in Jesus, 5) the believing lost call on Jesus to save them, and 6) Jesus saves everyone who calls on Him. One thing we can draw from this is that hearing a message is not enough. Trusting Jesus and calling on Him is also required.
Akouo is the wrong word and is not used in Rom.10:17.
Akouo is 191 in the Strongs, the right word akoe is 189 in the Strongs.