Poll about how you see predestination/freewill

Do you believe that we have free will, in the sense that each person has the ability to choose what one desires? I believe all are, before God's effectual grace is displayed in their lives, are not even able to choose God for they are not even able to choose to not sin. Does this negate free will? No.

So you take it as some kind of limitation on God's power that He is unable to create living creatures who are able to make decisions only when controlled by God? .

None of the above as predestination has nothing to do with man's free will. Predestination is God deciding what to do with believers; where and when to put them, how they are to work out the salvation they are given ie by conscience, Law (Torah) or the Spirit. Man has no part in that decision making process.

The Context. Context.

THOSE(the Church) whom He foreknew.

He is Not talking about Kroogz specifically. (we both know He could)

Kroogz believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for His salvation......As a part of the Church, I am predestined to be conformed to His image++++++

It is not about our specific salvation, that is what the calvies want us to believe.

I was chagrined to encounter atheism for the first meaningful time as a senior in HS, so my amazement was at the ability to choose NOT to believe in God

Paul did not say, "The church". That's your wrong interpretation. God does not save the "church". He saves individuals that become the church. We are living stones, not an amorphous mass. When we are judged, it will be as individuals, not as "the church".

Your argument is specious and has no point to it. What are you trying to prove?

No.

Go read my post again and ask yourself did you decide to be born in the Church age in what ever country reside? Did you decide as a believer that you would be given the Holy Spirit as a seal of your salvation? Along with all the other decisions God decided in regards to believers throughout the age.

God does not decide who believes, He decides how you are to work out the salvation He has given us and where and when we will do it. None of us decided that.

…4 Against You, You only, have I sinned and done what is evil in Your sight, so that You may be proved right when You speak and blameless when You judge. 5 Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me. 6Surely You desire truth in the inmost being; You teach me wisdom in the inmost place.…
(Psalm 51:4-6)

This is not to be taken literally but should be understood to mean that "we sin as soon as we are capable of thought and choice.


When David said he was "evil at CONCEPTION" we are not to take this literally since the prophets and Jesus Himself said that children are INNOCENT. We become sinful as soon as we become capable of understanding and choosing. Jesus said of children:
(Luke 18:15-17)

And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
(Matthew 18:2-5)

And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are CONVERTED AND BECOME LIKE CHILDREN, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven
(Matthew 19:13-14)
By contrast, Reformed teacher Voddie Baucham has called human infants "children vipers in diapers." Who is right Jesus or the Reformed teachers?

The Bible speaks clearly that infant which die at birth are INNOCENT
"In the Old Testament, the shedding of innocent blood is explicitly condemned and is often associated with acts of violence, murder, and injustice. The law given to Israel through Moses underscores the gravity of such acts. In the Old Testament, the shedding of innocent blood is explicitly condemned and is often associated with acts of violence, murder, and injustice. The law given to Israel through Moses underscores the gravity of such acts
(Deuteronomy 19:10).

A Parallel passage to this is Psalm 58:3
"The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
Do the unborn or newly born literally GO ASTRAY at birth, speaking lies? I admit I never saw a newborn infant speaking.

Hey yall, lets get this poll going I wanna see what you guys are gonna vote. I wont include the "other" option because so many would vote for it, even though they for sure are somewhat close to one of the mentioned views.

So you see no distinction from Israel and the Church?

Israel is promised to be conformed to His image? To be adopted?

Is there Scripture that says this? Or is this a man-made doctrine based on someone's interpretation of Scripture?

Neither calvinist nor Armenian = salvation is by free will..but it can't be undone.

Wow. This explains a lot of your posts. Sheltered to a fault.

i consider it sound advice. whenever clear knowledge is hidden, if you have to choose, take the opinion that maximizes the glory of God.


it is better to assume He is greater, wiser and more powerful than He really is, and discover God is smaller than you thought, than to presume He is the contrary.


so what i believe is closer to Calvin's thoughts ((which are not what is today called calvinism oddly enough)) because they maintain above all else God's sovereignty, while the other poll choices sacrifice so me amount of His power and authority to the altar of human volition.


anytime i am presented with any doctrinal crossroad emphasizing human glory vs divine, the answer of which is closer to The Truth, to me seems abundantly clear.

That is inconsistent and incoherent. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sloppy and unsystematic theology

That is inconsistent and incoherent. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sloppy and unsystematic theology

There are a number of Pelagian heretics here. You could have included that option on your poll...

many people claim to be classical arminians but are actually pelagians. they wont talk about
original sin or depravity, people can just choose to move their brain muscles and believe the gospel.