The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

Projection or self-inclusion also?

Sanctification is an ongoing process. No one will reach perfection in this life. However, this process does indeed strengthen us to overcome sin when it sneaks up on us – just as it is explained below:

Article 4
Although the weakness of the flesh cannot prevail against the power of God, who confirms and preserves true believers in a state of grace, yet converts are not always so influenced and actuated by the Spirit of God, as not in some particular instances sinfully to deviate from the guidance of divine grace, so as to be seduced by, and comply with the lusts of the flesh; they must, therefore, be constant in watching and prayer that they be not led into temptation. When these are neglected, they are not only liable to be drawn into great and heinous sins by Satan, the world and the flesh, but sometimes by the righteous permission of God actually fall into these evils. This the lamentable fall of David, Peter, and other saints described in Holy Scripture demonstrates.
As you can see, God allows Satan to tempt us – so that we bow our head in shame.

So the servant could never earn it. thus he could never lose it.

This does not make sense. why would you claim if you could lose something you did not earn?

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Matt 18: 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

Again, Could he pay his debt?

So you prety much going to ignore my question again, and try to speak about 2 verses which I said I would not discuss until you answered my question first?

What school did you go to? because there is something very wrong with your understanding.

Once again, WHAT WORKS DO I NEED TO DO.

its not a hard question. Just name each work we are require to do to be saved.

I mean seriously. if I wanted people to think I at least understood my own argument, I would answer the question without hesitation.

yada yada yada

If our salvation is not entirely Gods will then Gods plan of salvation for the world could have failed.
I guess God would have to hang his head and kick rocks if Judas decided he was not going to betray Christ. Christ said that it would have been better if Judas would have never been born than betray the Son of Man. Did Judas have a choice? No, he was the chosen one to fulfill the will of God.
That being said, then God would be a respecter of persons if any person through man’s entire existence had the ability to choose a choice that would go against, or alter the will of God. It would be unfair to Judas. And God is not a respecter of persons.

Everyone’s name that is written in the book of life is going to Gods party. That book is sealed until gods plans for redemption is complete. There will be no fresh ink or erase marks. Why? Because it’s the divine will of God.

Before Adam. Before Christ, before creation, before gods plan of salvation for the world, first and foremost is the Glory of God. Why does he wash away sins? For HIS namesake. God is not going to entrust his glory in the hands of a finite, sinful, self centered being. What he divinely declares will be done, and he has declared me sinless in Christ, and has given me eternal life, and what does that manifest? GLORY, GLORY, GLORY to the most awesome dad ever!!! I don’t think there’s much glory being an indian giver.

GOD HAS MADE ALL THINGS FOR HIMSELF, YEA, EVEN THE WICKED FOR THE DAY OF EVIL (Prov 16:4)

I can’t figure out any other rational way to look at it.

Read again. What is a Christian being saved from?

The block Christians have had created in them from theological traditions is astounding. But this is what I saw decades ago and experimented with in teaching and on the street (so to speak).

Although many had been taught the tense-based language of Scripture re Salvation - were saved - are being saved - will be saved - and said they understood it, they were stuck on 'were saved' and wanted to argue clear language like Phil2:12. Same on this thread. Actually, the same on all repetitive threads I've seen on this topic. Also, many have never been taught how salvation is spoken of in many ways on the Text and adamantly call the tense reality heretical.

I'm willing to discuss Eternal Security with all sides using Scripture and not constructs. It would be nice to find resolution, whatever is the Truth. I for one think it'll take everyone letting go a bit and realizing others have a piece of it we don't.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question: What if I said I see assurance and never believed and apostasy in the Text? Do you think you'd be able to take me through the Text and clearly and accurately explain any error apart from carrying presupposition into the Text - a.k.a. eisegesis?

It’s a mess having to unravel a mess…they will take you on a never ending trail that leads to nothing…all to believe error and lies…

So if salvation is entirely of God’s and we don’t have a choice in the matter…then is it also entirely of God’s that He chooses hell for whoever He wants to go there and they have no choice in that as well?

Obedience is obedience and is directly correlated to faith in Rom10 and Heb3 at minimum. In Luke 17 Jesus taught that obedience is duty and expected as part of even miniscule faith. The resultant question should be what is rewarded, obedience or the work actually done in Faith-Obedience?

If you have the ability, then we can work this through the Text. We can actually look at it mostly in English until we get to Rom1 & 16 to discuss Paul's mission to the nations.

You're the one putting "getting" into the discussion. Not me.

The language doesn't say "adjusted" it says "accomplished".

Where does it say accomplished?

You mean a negative correlation, in 2:8-9 and then a positive correlation in 2:8 & 10, correct?

Isn't part of this discussion for some in this thread whether that positive correlation is realized and what if it's not?

Let's just put this statement on automatic repost. The empty charges are endless.

You can say that again lol

Meant in the tense of the command to accomplish, which I've repeated probably a dozen times. See here Post #757 if the link doesn't work.

No. The correlation is in 1 direction. People get saved, they do the works prepared for them.

I have no idea what you are talking about. You are introducing terms not in the passage.

Did you read 2:8-9 first that says that faith is in opposition to works? Isn't that what much of this thread topic is repetitively about? If you want to stick with the Text re: the correlation of faith and works, then you should probably stick with that Text and say faith and good works...

Have a nice day. Grace and peace.