Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

Blessedly, none of that governs the relationship the Lord has forged with us, in which He has said that He will never leave nor forsake us.

The idea of separation is anti-scriptural.

MM

Nothing hypothetical about this. Once again, persuasion is no guarantee.

I continue to be amazed at how easily so many inject salvation into any and all negative items aimed at humanity, such as the one who denies Christ in this life will be denied by Him in eternity, even though the context is about rulership, not salvation.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The false beliefs that some harbor, in that the Spirit of the Lord has weaknesses in His ability to hold us in His sealing, or that the Lord goes back on His word by the power of sin, the very sin He defeated on the cross...oh, man. These doubts are from the pits of Hell, and should be viewed as such for what they are.

MM

Amen for God's seal. The foundation is sure even when we do not remain faithful.

2 Timothy 2:
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

“Maybe YOU can lose your salvation. John says if you leave it you never had it anyway,”

where does John say that ?

1 John 2:19

2:19 When the false teachers went out from among the believers, they revealed that they did not belong to the Christian community; they were never true believers.they … us: In the opening verses of this book, John made a distinction between weand you (1:1, 3). We, the apostles, were the eyewitnesses of Christ, you were the readers. That same distinction is probably maintained here (see also v. 20). Thus when John says these false teachers were not of us, he means they did not agree with the teaching of the apostles. These antichrists had departed from the apostolic churches, and their attitudes and actions were not of the apostolic persuasion. If they had been in harmony with the apostles, they would have remained in fellowship with them (1:1–3).

NKJV study notes.

“Like I've said a few times, I too had to wrestle with these verses and I too believed they were saying that we could lose our salvation. When you have the wrong perspective about not only Gods power, but our power, it leads to these kinds of mistakes.”

so this isn’t something we should believe ?

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

your ihimosphy is to not believe what’s plainly stated by the apostles Paul and that’s how people can really understand ?

No it does not. It literally says it is impossible to bring them ahain to repentance: active voice, .not passive.

It is impossible to eat a bale of hay,

No. It literally says it is impossible to bring them to repentance: passive voice.

While "it is impossible to swallow a a foot long fish whole", is true;
"It is impossible for a foot long fish to be swallowed whole," is not true.

"Nothing" is not the same as "no other creation / created thing",

Edification. There are many examples of it - it is how the elect/saved are taught things spiritual. God is the guarantee.

[Eph 4:29-30 KJV] 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

6If a man abide not (does no keep on abiding) in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

It is clear that nothing means nothing...not any thing.

You obviously don't understand the covenant we are in. I explained in post #4097. Under what stipulation of the new covenant can God separate from us?

Do you think that has anything to do with this brother ?

“To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.””
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬

then to the disciples John says

“Do not love the world or anything in the world. ( instruction don’t do this )

If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us;

but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-20‬ ‭

Brother John is saying the same things Jesus said if you don’t remain in his doctrine it’s revealing that you don’t belong to him. Same thing I e been quoting same thing with “ if we willfully keep sinning there’s no sacrifice for sins left just judgement ect they also by thier actions parting from him reveal who they are and who they belong to .



When Christian’s go out and start preaching alternate gospels that reject the lord and his way of salvation it’s showing them to be a fraud. Those scriptures don’t say anything about salvstion having it or losing it . It’s disciples who turn away showing thier allegiance to the world.



“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:1, 4‬ ‭

Johns again talking about the Holy Ghost being in us from Christs doctrine same thing Jesus told us would happen if we believe him

The one who is in you he gets in you from the gospel when we believe

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. ( the annointing in us )

The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 23-24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

John is speaking from his gospel to people who believed it and followed


.Brother sometimes people believe in Jesus and then they realize when they hear his doctrine it’s going to change things for them they see Jesus calling for things like love of money list greed ect and at that point they stop they turn back and never bear fruit

This is actually what’s going on since the gospel is being preached

“When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not consider it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. ( not god causing it )

This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. ( not god causing it )

When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:19-22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

it’s the word of the gospel and our response to it god isn’t causing anyone to be damned or forcing anyone to be saved he’s given the choice to us all

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

that’s true for every living soul it’s not saying “ God has already determined what your going to do good and bad and then he’s going to blame you and punish you for what he caused

It’s saying clearly to everyone willing to listen and believe “ one day you are going to have to stand before Jesus and receive e writhing that you have done in his sight good or bad “

thats the entire reason for the gospel gods trying to save us from the coming judgement because we’ve all sinned believers non believers everyone is in the same group and needs to accept the gospel it’s the only thing on earth that can save anyone on earth

But I don’t know brother I don’t think it’s saying “ either your saved or you aren’t there’s nothing you can do about it “

i think the opposite it’s saying no matter who you are if you believe the gospel you shall be saved !

If you deeply love someone and they reject you and go away from you and then die in a terrible way …….is it because you failed them ?

we can reject his love , those secure are the ones who return his love as he said through repentance and obedience to the gospel

if a fether provides all his children needs and then they choose to go away and things happen it’s not because he refused them to be home it’s because they chose something else

Amen...Not even ourselves ...

Ephesians 1:13-14