Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Pilgrimshope]

Repentance...everyone needs to. But it is a godly sorrow that works repentance unto salvation...2 Corinthians 7:10. This is part of the work of the Spirit that brings about true salvation. It's source is God, not man.

God blaming branches...God is never to blame for man's failures. Man fits Himself for destruction. The point of my statement was that fruit is produced by God, and produces it in all His own. There is no such thing as a Christian without fruit. The lack of fruit is evidence of the lack of a true and vital relationship with Christ.
Many people associated themselves with Jesus during His earthly ministry, but most stopped following Him. He arrived in Jerusalem to a rousing crowd, but most later assented to His crucifixion. The same is true today. Many associate themselves with the church only to fall away. But some remain. Why? Because they are spiritual giants? No, but because they are truly connected to Christ who will never leave them or forsake them. He has set His affection upon them and will not let them go. Those who leave have no such connection or promise. He never knew them.

Jesus said to those Jews who believed on Him...the passage itself limits the audience. It is only to those who believed on Him. What follows is for them alone. Those who believe do keep his commandments. They are set free.
You seem to think that anyone who associates themselves to Christ and the church is a believer. This simply has never been true. Those who fall away cannot have been saved. Otherwise, Jesus has lied.

“Jesus said to those Jews who believed on Him...the passage itself limits the audience. It is only to those who believed on Him. What follows is for them alone.”

This passage changes all that about who the audience is

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the world.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

it’s for everyone brother even the non believers it’s for them ot will condemn them because they reject it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not “ he that’s already damned will not believe , he that’s already saved Will bekieve and get baptized “

that’s backwards bro . It is “ preach the gospel to everyone the same things I preached to you whoever believes like you did shall be saved and whoever hears and believes not will be doomed

the same doctrine will never change and can save anyone God created he sent it out because he wants us all to believe and be saved acknolwedging the truth

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you seem to keep building everything upon hes onky willing to save some people , only willing to save some branches in him some he acts and saves others he doesn’t act and save ect

Jesus is saying to everyone in existence “ this is salvstion I’ve made it clear believe me and you will have everything I’ve promised my disciples who hear and believe me and follow because they trust me “

some of us will believe the lords word and we’ll be saved because of that

Others will reject it and opt for a different faith in thier life or even no faith at all

“And without faith it is impossible to please God,

because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists

and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

He rewards tbe people who hear the gospel and his call to seek him but the same is offered to all they just won’t believe

 

[Cameron143]

“Repentance...everyone needs to. But it is a godly sorrow that works repentance unto salvation...2 Corinthians 7:10. This is part of the work of the Spirit that brings about true salvation. Its source is God, not man.”

brother read what happens before . That’s how you know what he’s saying . A man had sinned in the church and the others were approving of him and accepting it celebrating even.

paul heard about it and was infuriated with the whole assembly and so he wrote them a scathing letter of rebuke saying things like this

“It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. ……hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? ……“Expel the wicked person from among you.””
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:1-3, 5-6, 12-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters.

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:7-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price.

Therefore honor God with your body and spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:18-20‬ ‭

That’s what Paul’s talking about here god doesn’t just do it we have to accept his word and respond look now in his second letter after the harsh first one

“Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance.

For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. ( they were sorry because our rebuked then so harshly with the word of God reminding them of they didn’t straighten up they would lose thier inheritance in Gods kingdom he really lit into them good because they already knew better )

See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:8-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

brother your locked into this idea about god doing things differently than his doctrine declares so you read this one scripture and then explained a lot that isn’t what the verse is saying

pauls letter of rebuke with doctrine is what caused thier sorrow because he told them “ you guys have sinned just like him your celebrating this and accepting this terrible sexual sin and no one’s saying anything you should have already cast this guy out , hand him over to Satan to destroy the Will of his flesh so he can be saved …

later in the second letter Paul hears that they have repented and everyone now understands that kind of behavior is not acceptable in Christ he goes through alot of thier behaviors rebuking them and

he’s explaining “ being made aware of and sorrow you feel for your sin leads you to repentance it’s a godly manner a godly reason to be sorrowful is because we have sinned . If we’re okay with it and believe we’re not called to obey and there’s no consequence for sin ….there’s no reason to repent

godly sorrow is when a Christian realizes they are sinning or have sinned and it makes them sorrowful or ashamed and fearful . We’re supposed to follow tbat inner compass that is in our heart. It will lead to repentance if we don’t ignore his words

had they received oauls letter and then lol everyone argued about it and decided “ we’re already saved man oaul doesn’t get it we can’t lose our inheritance god won’t do that to heck with Paul and his words

they never would have been made sorry or of Paul had written and said “ I jeers about you guys and all that sin , it’s okay God will magically force you to repent later your all saved no worries make sure to live that sinner by the way nonone say anything about what’s Jew doing he belienves in tje cross everyone’s saved “-

then again nonone would repent they’d be thinking “ ot doesn’t matter what I do I have no choice no control over my own actions I can’t possibly do anything different I’m saved no worries “

what we believe matters God works through his word that’s the only way it happens the gospel is where we receive his spirit from the word he sent to be preached in the world all
Of it comes from the word

If we begin to believe him and what they taught it’s going to change everything but truly and without a doubt will bring a season of sorrow into our lives over many of our actions repentance sometimes hurts quite a bit

god gives us gifts as we hear and believe him brother je doesn’t work outside of his words with man but within those confines

all we need to do is hear what the lord really said in the gospel and accept it and believe those things he said as we learn them

Honestly I don't know how to answer you anymore. You obviously think I'm not understanding something, but I don't know what it is. And at this point, we seem to have gone astray from the point I was making.
If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus, or how someone can be unborn from above, or how a new creation is de-created, or how eternal life is eternal if it can end, I would greatly appreciate it. But as for how to answer you, I find it not.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Honestly I don't know how to answer you anymore. You obviously think I'm not understanding something, but I don't know what it is. And at this point, we seem to have gone astray from the point I was making.
If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus, or how someone can be unborn from above, or how a new creation is de-created, or how eternal life is eternal if it can end, I would greatly appreciate it. But as for how to answer you, I find it not.

If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus, or how someone can be unborn from above, or how a new creation is de-created, or how eternal life is eternal if it can end, I would greatly appreciate it.




“But as for how to answer you, I find it not”

because you are arguing against the scriptures im quoting and saying look brother what it says !

“If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus,”

god won’t force us to stay home in his love your reading without context

Look who he’s talking about

“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭NIV‬‬

My point is that’s what leads to this point

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:38-39‬ ‭

Hes talking about the gospel what Jesus taught here

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 21, 23-24, 26‬ ‭

and what we were talking about earlier

The good of those who love God

“He cuts off every branch in me ( in Christ ) that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. “

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, ( stuff like this sounds hard to hear o know brother ) just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-7, 9-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

brother I hope you aren’t taking any personal issues from this we’re just discussing the Bible I know your a believer , I just think you’ve missed some things

awe have to pay close attention to context Jesus was saying all along if you remain in me and keep my words I will do all these things in promising

“ If you love me listen to me learn from me and follow what I’m teaching you and I’ll give you the Holy Ghost who will come and strengthen you and remind you of all the throngs I’ve taught you while I was with you if you love me keep my words if a man doesn’t love me it will show because he won’t keep my words this is why some will know me and some won’t “

Paul and all the apostles were preaching to people who had heard the gospel the truth and believed

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some take a few lines of Paul and then create a different gospel ( not saying you so this brother ) but I’m saying it’s our there and prevelant be careful not to live away from the actual things Jesus taught in the gospel and then sent to all people for salvation

apart of it is him teaching believers how to live in his words what to do like communion and baptism , what not to do like sin and idolatry how not to be greed my and proud ect how not to think with thoughts of lust and plotting sin ect

as we learn from him that’s how he works in us when we accept it into our hearts the things he’s telling us to do or not to do that’s how he’s working because we hear and believe and trust so then we act ….that’s faith

Saved by faith

“You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says,

“You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. …….As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:20-24, 26‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We’re taught the right things to act in and to repent of sin that’s part of our faith that saved us by grace

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. ( the gospel sent to all people full of grace and truth )

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We’re just meant to be believers as we are able to learn what’s there

but brother I sense you are taking this in a spirit it isn’t intended so I’m going to let you discuss with others who understand what your saying and aren’t so hung up on scripture

 

[Cameron143]

If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus, or how someone can be unborn from above, or how a new creation is de-created, or how eternal life is eternal if it can end, I would greatly appreciate it.




“But as for how to answer you, I find it not”

because you are arguing against the scriptures im quoting and saying look brother what it says !

“If you can show me from scripture how one can be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus,”

god won’t force us to stay home in his love your reading without context

Look who he’s talking about

“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭NIV‬‬

My point is that’s what leads to this point

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:38-39‬ ‭

Hes talking about the gospel what Jesus taught here

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 21, 23-24, 26‬ ‭

and what we were talking about earlier

The good of those who love God

“He cuts off every branch in me ( in Christ ) that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. “

As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, ( stuff like this sounds hard to hear o know brother ) just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-7, 9-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

brother I hope you aren’t taking any personal issues from this we’re just discussing the Bible I know your a believer , I just think you’ve missed some things

awe have to pay close attention to context Jesus was saying all along if you remain in me and keep my words I will do all these things in promising

“ If you love me listen to me learn from me and follow what I’m teaching you and I’ll give you the Holy Ghost who will come and strengthen you and remind you of all the throngs I’ve taught you while I was with you if you love me keep my words if a man doesn’t love me it will show because he won’t keep my words this is why some will know me and some won’t “

Paul and all the apostles were preaching to people who had heard the gospel the truth and believed

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some take a few lines of Paul and then create a different gospel ( not saying you so this brother ) but I’m saying it’s our there and prevelant be careful not to live away from the actual things Jesus taught in the gospel and then sent to all people for salvation

apart of it is him teaching believers how to live in his words what to do like communion and baptism , what not to do like sin and idolatry how not to be greed my and proud ect how not to think with thoughts of lust and plotting sin ect

as we learn from him that’s how he works in us when we accept it into our hearts the things he’s telling us to do or not to do that’s how he’s working because we hear and believe and trust so then we act ….that’s faith

Saved by faith

“You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says,

“You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. …….As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:20-24, 26‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We’re taught the right things to act in and to repent of sin that’s part of our faith that saved us by grace

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. ( the gospel sent to all people full of grace and truth )

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We’re just meant to be believers as we are able to learn what’s there

but brother I sense you are taking this in a spirit it isn’t intended so I’m going to let you discuss with others who understand what your saying and aren’t so hung up on scripture

Read Romans 8 and tell me what the scripture says can separate someone in Christ from God's love.
Just that.
My spirit is fine. I consider you a wonderful brother in the Lord. But I am trying to make a point.

 

[Musicmaster]

I trust the translators that translated the Bible and the thousands who have double checked everything it’s just a worldly reason to reject it I already understand the attempt

You've shown to us that ignorance is bliss...so to speak.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Read Romans 8 and tell me what the scripture says can separate someone in Christ from God's love.
Just that.
My spirit is fine. I consider you a wonderful brother in the Lord. But I am trying to make a point.

You want me to just read this ?

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:35, 37-39‬ ‭

But not anything else? Let’s see what else is there before the conclusion

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they can’t be walking in the flesh ot shows in our actions

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5‬ ‭

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again they can’t be living like this for the flesh desires

“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. ( we have to choose to follow the spirit and not the flesh )

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭

we have to remain in Christ it’s not “conditionless “ it’s based upon what he said to believe the gospel

Brother this is a real when we are dealing with Paul’s letters because he makes long long points driving home the issues and going deep into the things Jesus taught in the gospel .


abut bro take peters word for it not mine

“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

If we first listen to Jesus teachings then read Paul and the apostles it’s all simple all the terminology like you notice where oauls talking about the spirit and flesh ? It’s gospel terminology we need to hear the gospel first

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The spirit that offers life to those who believe

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to act eventually brother like Noah he acted on what God told him and was saved by faith he only acted because he heard what god told him about the flood and the ark that would save him faith is to hear and believe what God said to you and act upon it

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You've shown to us that ignorance is bliss...so to speak.

MM

Nice one😅

I suppose if you ignore enough pain scripture and create a different gospel telling everyone they need to find some translators to explain why the Bible’s got it wrong …..it could be bliss temporarily but

eventually

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I mean could bring some bliss if I reject and ignore that as a fallacy but I’m not willing to do that certainly would never tell others it’s not true

 

[Theopolitan]

I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.

It's been five years. How's the maintenance going on your salvation?

 

[Edify]

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:35, 37-39‬ ‭

John 3:16 starts out with: "For God so loved the world", & He does.
This might sound a little odd for some, but this does NOT mean we can't be separated from God Himself.
In these last days, many christians are going their own ways, SEPARATING THEMSELVES from God by turning to ANOTHER gospel, ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER grace, and ANOTHER faith that isn't Christ's way, or Christ's truth, & in doing so will not have CHRIST"S life in them.
They themselves fell away, bringing upon themselves their own damnation.

 

[Musicmaster]

It's been five years. How's the maintenance going on your salvation?

It's interesting how many people inject salvation into almost everything negative toward humanity from the Lord. Instead of them talking about being blotted out from the Book of Life, it's even denial when the context was talking about rulership, which is one facet of reward. Loss of rewards, to them, is loss of salvation, which is not what is being said in the text. Some will even enter into eternity with NO rewards, such as crowns and other things not mentioned anywhere with specifics.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:35, 37-39‬ ‭

John 3:16 starts out with: "For God so loved the world", & He does.
This might sound a little odd for some, but this does NOT mean we can't be separated from God Himself.
In these last days, many christians are going their own ways, SEPARATING THEMSELVES from God by turning to ANOTHER gospel, ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER grace, and ANOTHER faith that isn't Christ's way, or Christ's truth, & in doing so will not have CHRIST"S life in them.
They themselves fell away, bringing upon themselves their own damnation.

Didn't Jonah try to "separate" himself from God? It didn't work. Also of mention is that Christ said that He will never leave nor forsake us, so there never is real separation.

MM

 

[Cameron143]

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:35, 37-39‬ ‭

John 3:16 starts out with: "For God so loved the world", & He does.
This might sound a little odd for some, but this does NOT mean we can't be separated from God Himself.
In these last days, many christians are going their own ways, SEPARATING THEMSELVES from God by turning to ANOTHER gospel, ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER grace, and ANOTHER faith that isn't Christ's way, or Christ's truth, & in doing so will not have CHRIST"S life in them.
They themselves fell away, bringing upon themselves their own damnation.

Even if one believes as you suggest, it is the Spirit who baptizes an individual into Christ. How does one get baptized out of Christ? Your focus was on love. The passage focuses on IN CHRIST.

 

[Edify]

Even if one believes as you suggest, it is the Spirit who baptizes an individual into Christ. How does one get baptized out of Christ? Your focus was on love. The passage focuses on IN CHRIST.

A man tells his wife, "Nothing will ever separate me from you" .
However, that doesn't keep the wife from divorcing her husband, no matter how great his love is for her.
When she does, she is legally separated from him from then on.

 

[PaulThomson]

If Hebrews 6 means as you say, many verses of scripture cannot be true. In Romans 8, it says nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. You are saying that that's not true. How can that be? But if my understanding is correct, the scriptures are unbroken and aligns

Romans 8:38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8 does not say "nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." It says "nor any other (hetera) creature (ktisis) can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus."

Hetera means another of a different kind qualitatively. Different qualitatively from what kind/s? It could mean different qualitatively from the kinds already listed; created things that are not "death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth".
And since Christians are not mentioned, and Christians are qualitatively different from the other things listed, that could mean no Christian can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus. And since I am a Christian, it could include me. I cannot separate myself from the love of God on Christ Jesus.

However, Paul could also have something else in mind. Donald Trump in 2015 could have said something like, "i am persuaded that neither congressmen, nor senators, nor DC bureaucrats, nor political party, nor any other American movement is going to rescue us from the problems besetting the US . That's why I am running for President and building a MAGA movement."

He means any agencies other than himself and the MAGA movement. He is not including himself among the "any other American movement" category.

So likewise, Paul, when he says "nor any other created thing can separate us" could have in mind "other than ourselves". In which case, just as a failure by Trump and MAGA individuals to follow through on their agenda could cause them personally to fail to bring about their rescue, individual Christians' failure to follow through on Christ's agenda could cause them to personallyv become separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8 is not a slam dunk for OSAS.


G243 - allos

ἄλλος
Transliteration: allos
Pronunciation: al'-los
Part of Speech: adjective
Root Word (Etymology): A primary word
TDNT Reference: 1:264,43
Outline of Biblical Usage:
another, other

Click for Synonyms
KJV Translation Count: 160x
The KJV translates Strongs G243 in the following manner: other(s) (81x), another (62x), some (11x), one (4x), misc (2x).
Strong's Definitions: ἄλλος állos, al'-los; a primary word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications):—more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
[Jump to Scripture Index]
STRONGS G243:
ἄλλος, -η, -ο, [cf. Latin alius, German alles, English else; from Homer down], another, other;
a. absolutely: Matthew 27:42; Matthew 20:3; Mark 6:15; Acts 19:32; Acts 21:34 (ἄλλοι μὲν ἄλλο), and often,
b. as an adjective: Matthew 2:12; Matthew 4:21; John 14:16; 1 Corinthians 10:29 (ἄλλη συνείδησις, i. e. ἡ συν. ἄλλου τινός).
c. with the article: ὁ ἄλλος the other (of two), Matthew 5:39; Matthew 12:13, etc. [cf. Buttmann, 32 (28), 122 (107)]; οἱ ἄλλοι all others, the remainder, the rest: John 21:8; 1 Corinthians 14:29.
[Synonyms: ἄλλος, ἕτερος (heteros): ἄλ. as compared with ἕτ. denotes numerical in distinction from qualitative difference; ἄλ. adds ('one besides'), ἕτ. distinguishes ('one of two'); every ἕτ. is an ἄλ., but not every ἄλ. is a ἕτ.; ἄλ. generally 'denotes simply distinction of individuals, ἕτερος involves the secondary idea of difference of kind'; e. g. 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6, 7. See Bp. Lightfoot and Meyer on the latter passage; Trench, § xcv.; Schmidt, chapter 198.]

 

[Jimbone]

“Sure. So if He who has begun a good work in you will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ, how can one be separated from being in Christ?”

when we refuse to accept what he said because we don’t believe him. Like this

The thing is brother I can accept what Jesus the Lord of all creation taught mankind to believe watch you can’t accept what he said

““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

( we don’t bear fruit we are removed from Christ the living vine )


You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. ( they listened to him and bekieved )

Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s as if Jesus never said anything about these things we talk about but then one person says look what Jesus said the other says “ that doesn’t apply “

Brother I’m confident that youninderrrsnd what Jesus taught his disciples who believes in him like above there

If the gardener sees a corrupt diseased branch on a vine that’s growing in the vine , it is removed so the disease doesn’t spread to the other branches and disease the fruit at harvest

jesus is the vine , we are the branches we can be removed and will be if we don’t start taking it seriously and hesring what he actually said so we can believe and bear fruit

I’m willing to believe what Jesus is saying to believe even though it pushes me to change my ways and act in his . I still believe what he said is how it is


not willing to pretend Jesus didn’t teach what he taught or his apostles didn’t teach ebat they taught I believe that’s a path to destruction firmly

the reason is that its repeated in every book of the Bible. Prophets Jesus and apostles they all explain we need to repent and obey the gospel so we don’t end up in this group

“He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. “
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I can’t grasp how warnings like this don’t break through the hypergracer wall it forces people to openly reject what God is teaching believers to believe.
That new age grace doctrine is a huge mystery to me I sort of am a believer of the Bible’s version of gods grace found in the gospel he preached and sent to e wry one to believe

So when we read clear plain scripture like this

“If we willingly keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Anyone who rejected the law of Moses ( ot ) died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant( nt ) that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-

It’s true it’s just a matter of if we are going to accept it or reject it based on our own thinking . this isn’t pleasant to hear but once a person believes what is there it actually causes us to change and get stronger and start moving and acting like he’s trying to tell us to

It’s really a plain thing in scripture yes if is Christian believes and then later turns away they aren’t going to be saved . The issue in the whole thread is no one’s actually saved until Jesus comes with salvstion at judgement day

we have a sure word of promise that we shall be saved but it’s according to his words of promise not what people make up

Maybe YOU can lose your salvation. John says if you leave it you never had it anyway, but that aside. I have been assured that I can't lose mine, by His word and AWESOME power and plan. I'd never serve the weak God you believe in. ANYONE that KNOWS the true power of God could never insult Him by arguing how weak and unable it is to save. No one. You are saying that we can have our eyes open to truth, to KNOW God is real and Jesus IS His Son, that we can be spiritual resurrected and reconciled to God in truth, and then turn from the truth, or be snatched out of His hand. I couldn't disagree more and I personally see this as an insult to His power, on the same level to me, as spitting in His face. I'm not trying to just jab at you, but what you're saying I see this way whole heartedly.

I do not understand how you can say God saved you and completely transformed you, that you've been saved, truly born-again, to KNOW firsthand the power of God, yet argue that you could turn from it. I don't believe that's possible, obviously you do, because you are so trying to sell the weakness and inability of God so hard. Why? I don't understand why you want to teach that being born-again is just a probation that starts your works based salvation, something that has been totally condemned from the very start of the way.
The proof text you keep pointing to are not clear enough in the face of all the text that directly contradicts them, to make them mean what you say they mean. You have to harmonize ALL His word when dealing with these issues, and I believe that is sorely missing from your interpretations of what these text mean.

 

[Jimbone]

Romans 8:38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8 does not say "nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." It says "nor any other (hetera) creature (ktisis) can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus."

Hetera means another of a different kind qualitatively. Different qualitatively from what kind/s? It could mean different qualitatively from the kinds already listed; created things that are not "death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth".
And since Christians are not mentioned, and Christians are qualitatively different from the other things listed, that could mean no Christian can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus. And since I am a Christian, it could include me. I cannot separate myself from the love of God on Christ Jesus.

However, Paul could also have something else in mind. Donald Trump in 2015 could have said something like, "i am persuaded that neither congressmen, nor senators, nor DC bureaucrats, nor political party, nor any other American movement is going to rescue us from the problems besetting the US . That's why I am running for President and building a MAGA movement."

He means any agencies other than himself and the MAGA movement. He is not including himself among the "any other American movement" category.

So likewise, Paul, when he says "nor any other created thing can separate us" could have in mind "other than ourselves". In which case, just as a failure by Trump and MAGA individuals to follow through on their agenda could cause them personally to fail to bring about their rescue, individual Christians' failure to follow through on Christ's agenda could cause them to personallyv become separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8 is not a slam dunk for OSAS.


G243 - allos

ἄλλος
Transliteration: allos
Pronunciation: al'-los
Part of Speech: adjective
Root Word (Etymology): A primary word
TDNT Reference: 1:264,43
Outline of Biblical Usage:
another, other

Click for Synonyms
KJV Translation Count: 160x
The KJV translates Strongs G243 in the following manner: other(s) (81x), another (62x), some (11x), one (4x), misc (2x).
Strong's Definitions: ἄλλος állos, al'-los; a primary word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications):—more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
[Jump to Scripture Index]
STRONGS G243:
ἄλλος, -η, -ο, [cf. Latin alius, German alles, English else; from Homer down], another, other;
a. absolutely: Matthew 27:42; Matthew 20:3; Mark 6:15; Acts 19:32; Acts 21:34 (ἄλλοι μὲν ἄλλο), and often,
b. as an adjective: Matthew 2:12; Matthew 4:21; John 14:16; 1 Corinthians 10:29 (ἄλλη συνείδησις, i. e. ἡ συν. ἄλλου τινός).
c. with the article: ὁ ἄλλος the other (of two), Matthew 5:39; Matthew 12:13, etc. [cf. Buttmann, 32 (28), 122 (107)]; οἱ ἄλλοι all others, the remainder, the rest: John 21:8; 1 Corinthians 14:29.
[Synonyms: ἄλλος, ἕτερος (heteros): ἄλ. as compared with ἕτ. denotes numerical in distinction from qualitative difference; ἄλ. adds ('one besides'), ἕτ. distinguishes ('one of two'); every ἕτ. is an ἄλ., but not every ἄλ. is a ἕτ.; ἄλ. generally 'denotes simply distinction of individuals, ἕτερος involves the secondary idea of difference of kind'; e. g. 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6, 7. See Bp. Lightfoot and Meyer on the latter passage; Trench, § xcv.; Schmidt, chapter 198.]

You are adding to His word to make it say and mean what you want it to. You can drag out the Greek and write 10 walls of text, but YOU have to add the "other than ourselves".

So bottom line here is that you are trying to add to the word of God. I don't accept that.

 

[Cameron143]

A man tells his wife, "Nothing will ever separate me from you" .
However, that doesn't keep the wife from divorcing her husband, no matter how great his love is for her.
When she does, she is legally separated from him from then on.

God is like men, and being baptized into Christ by the Spirit can be undone by men? Is God not faithful? How do you reconcile this with the fact that Jesus said He would never leave us or forsake us?

Another aspect. Israel was under a covenant between God and man. They failed to keep the terms of the covenant and God carried out the sanctions for Israel under the terms of the covenant. We are under a covenant between God the Father and God the Son. All of the terms of the covenant have been fulfilled for us. On what basis or stipulation of the covenant can God separate from us?

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 8:38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8 does not say "nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus." It says "nor any other (hetera) creature (ktisis) can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus."

Hetera means another of a different kind qualitatively. Different qualitatively from what kind/s? It could mean different qualitatively from the kinds already listed; created things that are not "death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth".
And since Christians are not mentioned, and Christians are qualitatively different from the other things listed, that could mean no Christian can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus. And since I am a Christian, it could include me. I cannot separate myself from the love of God on Christ Jesus.

However, Paul could also have something else in mind. Donald Trump in 2015 could have said something like, "i am persuaded that neither congressmen, nor senators, nor DC bureaucrats, nor political party, nor any other American movement is going to rescue us from the problems besetting the US . That's why I am running for President and building a MAGA movement."

He means any agencies other than himself and the MAGA movement. He is not including himself among the "any other American movement" category.

So likewise, Paul, when he says "nor any other created thing can separate us" could have in mind "other than ourselves". In which case, just as a failure by Trump and MAGA individuals to follow through on their agenda could cause them personally to fail to bring about their rescue, individual Christians' failure to follow through on Christ's agenda could cause them to personallyv become separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8 is not a slam dunk for OSAS.


G243 - allos

ἄλλος
Transliteration: allos
Pronunciation: al'-los
Part of Speech: adjective
Root Word (Etymology): A primary word
TDNT Reference: 1:264,43
Outline of Biblical Usage:
another, other

Click for Synonyms
KJV Translation Count: 160x
The KJV translates Strongs G243 in the following manner: other(s) (81x), another (62x), some (11x), one (4x), misc (2x).
Strong's Definitions: ἄλλος állos, al'-los; a primary word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications):—more, one (another), (an-, some an-)other(-s, -wise).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
[Jump to Scripture Index]
STRONGS G243:
ἄλλος, -η, -ο, [cf. Latin alius, German alles, English else; from Homer down], another, other;
a. absolutely: Matthew 27:42; Matthew 20:3; Mark 6:15; Acts 19:32; Acts 21:34 (ἄλλοι μὲν ἄλλο), and often,
b. as an adjective: Matthew 2:12; Matthew 4:21; John 14:16; 1 Corinthians 10:29 (ἄλλη συνείδησις, i. e. ἡ συν. ἄλλου τινός).
c. with the article: ὁ ἄλλος the other (of two), Matthew 5:39; Matthew 12:13, etc. [cf. Buttmann, 32 (28), 122 (107)]; οἱ ἄλλοι all others, the remainder, the rest: John 21:8; 1 Corinthians 14:29.
[Synonyms: ἄλλος, ἕτερος (heteros): ἄλ. as compared with ἕτ. denotes numerical in distinction from qualitative difference; ἄλ. adds ('one besides'), ἕτ. distinguishes ('one of two'); every ἕτ. is an ἄλ., but not every ἄλ. is a ἕτ.; ἄλ. generally 'denotes simply distinction of individuals, ἕτερος involves the secondary idea of difference of kind'; e. g. 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6, 7. See Bp. Lightfoot and Meyer on the latter passage; Trench, § xcv.; Schmidt, chapter 198.]

See post #4097.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I believe those who believe they can lose their Salvation is due to the lack of Assurence...I was once like that...I would wake up everyday of the first 5 yrs of my salvation , wondering if I was saved or not , had I lost it , what a miserable life that was...
I cried out to God this year , in pain and agony of such thoughts , and He releaved to me that I lacked assurence...Once The Holy Spirit reassured me that God is the keeper of my soul , the anchor of my soul , I could finally rest in His beautiful promises...
All the Glory to Him I say Amen...\/

 

[Jimbone]

I believe those who believe they can lose their Salvation is due to the lack of Assurence...I was once like that...I would wake up everyday of the first 5 yrs of my salvation , wondering if I was saved or not , had I lost it , what a miserable life that was...
I cried out to God this year , in pain and agony of such thoughts , and He releaved to me that I lacked assurence...Once The Holy Spirit reassured me that God is the keeper of my soul , the anchor of my soul , I could finally rest in His beautiful promises...
All the Glory to Him I say Amen...\/

I can relate. Like I've said a few times, I too had to wrestle with these verses and I too believed they were saying that we could lose our salvation. When you have the wrong perspective about not only Gods power, but our power, it leads to these kinds of mistakes. To low a view on the power of God paired with too high a view of the power of our will, was what lead me into this mistake. The biggest problem with this idea that we can lose salvation is the blatant FACT that saying this means that it's up to YOU to stay saved. The second you buy into this you're saying that being born-again is not being saved, it is God taking the whole weight of your salvation and dropping it right onto your shoulders, this puts it ALL on you, it's completely dependent on how you behave. Doesn't sound like a light yolk to me. This makes being saved a works based deal, and now it's not Gods grace that saves us, but our obedience. This is just false.

It's a false gospel and a garbage teaching and I pray God opens eye's and hearts to how absolutely false it is. It's not hard to think out with His guidance.