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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#501
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
#501
Rufus said:
And...sin is the Natural Man's slave master!
Click to expand...
I wonder how people can think that from this place of enslavement to the devil's will that the natural man can choose to love and obey God without God making it possible by moving first. To compound their error they say if God does not reveal Himself in the exact same way in order to enable an individual then He is being unfair... which would mean they must think everyone should get a road to Damascus experience, or a burning bush experience. Meanwhile we know this is simply not true. Nor is God unfair to treat people as individuals. All the squawking about how good man is flies directly in the face of what Scripture actually teaches. Even Jesus denied being good.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#503
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
#503
He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure...

not according to the demands of those who oppose what Scripture teaches.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#504
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
#504

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:10

Ephesians 2:19-22
:)
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#505
Oct 12, 2017
3,432
535
113
#505
Rufus said:
Your posts Shirley contain a huge "element of imagination" (your phrase) -- not to mention eisegesis!
Click to expand...

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight.

Philippians 1:9
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#506
Oct 12, 2017
3,432
535
113
#506
Rufus said:
And...sin is the Natural Man's slave master!
Click to expand...
So what frees you from sinning?
How does it work?

Do you not still sin at times?"
Then you still have a sin nature.

grace and peace .............
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#507
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#507
Magenta said:
The natural man cannot love God, that is a fact. He is hostile in his mind towards Him.
Click to expand...

Yes, But God can soften a mans heart and let him know where he stands. The tax collector wa a natural man when he got on his knees and cried out.

The natural man is enslaved to the devil, who has taken him (the natural man) captive to his will.
Click to expand...
Not sure I fully agree. If this was really true. No one would or could ever come to Christ.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#508
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#508
Magenta said:
I wonder how people can think that from this place of enslavement to the devil's will that the natural man can choose to love and obey God without God making it possible by moving first.
Click to expand...

They can’t, we love because God first loved us,

again, the tax collector did not love God. he just was brought to his knees and chose to react and not keep hiding the truth in his heart.

To compound their error they say if God does not reveal Himself in the exact same way in order to enable an individual then He is being unfair... which would mean they must think everyone should get a road to Damascus experience, or a burning bush experience. Meanwhile we know this is simply not true. Nor is God unfair to treat people as individuals. All the squawking about how good man is flies directly in the face of what Scripture actually teaches. Even Jesus denied being good.
Click to expand...
Agree here
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#509
Oct 12, 2017
3,432
535
113
#509
[QUOTE="Rufus, post: 5351150, member: 329516"]Your posts Shirley contain a huge "element of imagination" (your phrase) -- not to mention eisegesis![/QUOTE]

" Shirley?"
And, you're talking about about eisegesis?

You can not even rightly divide the words I write!

;) Here! maybe this will help! :coffee::coffee::coffee:....


grace and peace ...............
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#510
Oct 12, 2017
3,432
535
113
#510
Magenta said:
The natural man cannot love God, that is a fact. He is hostile in his mind towards Him.

The natural man is enslaved to the devil, who has taken him (the natural man) captive to his will.
Click to expand...
So what part of the original 'you' now loves God?

(your soul).....

You soul was not totally depraved. Its your flesh that was crucified with Christ.
To say man is 'totally depraved' is to say that man has nothing that can be saved!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#511
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
#511
Everlasting-Grace said:
Yes, But God can soften a mans heart and let him know where he stands. The tax collector wa a natural man when he got on his knees and cried out.

Not sure I fully agree. If this was really true. No one would or could ever come to Christ.
Click to expand...
That is Scripture, my friend. But GOD circumcises our hearts so that we may love Him.
That is also Scripture. He draws us with loving kindness. That is Scripture also.
Do people circumcise their own hearts and ears and unstop their blind eyes?
Do they raise themselves from death? Repentance is granted. Faith is given.
These are Scriptural truths, though some here deny them.
God alone is good. That is denied also.


Ephesians 5:14
Thank you for the inspiration (designed today, first time posting) .:)
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#512
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#512
Magenta said:
That is Scripture, my friend. But GOD circumcises our hearts so that we may love Him.
That is also Scripture. He draws us with loving kindness. That is Scripture also.
Do people circumcise their own hearts and ears and unstop their blind eyes?
Do they raise themselves from death? Repentance is granted. Faith is given.
These are Scriptural truths, though some here deny them.
God alone is good. That is denied also.


Ephesians 5:14
Thank you for the inspiration (designed today, first time posting) .:)
Click to expand...
AMEN

it is all done by God.. Just not as a fatalist says, we are not born again first. Then come to faith. we come to faith, then we are born again, Because that which made us dead, is removed (we are justified)
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#513
Feb 17, 2024
3,050
411
83
#513
Magenta said:
I wonder how people can think that from this place of enslavement to the devil's will that the natural man can choose to love and obey God without God making it possible by moving first. To compound their error they say if God does not reveal Himself in the exact same way in order to enable an individual then He is being unfair... which would mean they must think everyone should get a road to Damascus experience, or a burning bush experience. Meanwhile we know this is simply not true. Nor is God unfair to treat people as individuals. All the squawking about how good man is flies directly in the face of what Scripture actually teaches. Even Jesus denied being good.
Click to expand...
These people who think this way believe God thinks like they do. And even worse that sinful, finite mortal beings have a mortal lock on what is just is fair and if God doesn't work according their moral protocols or standards, then they can sit in judgment of Him and blaspheme Him by calling him all kinds of derogatory names with impunity.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#514
Feb 17, 2024
3,050
411
83
#514
Everlasting-Grace said:
AMEN

it is all done by God.. Just not as a fatalist says, we are not born again first. Then come to faith. we come to faith, then we are born again, Because that which made us dead, is removed (we are justified)
Click to expand...
Nope. Dead men have no ability to function spiritually. Life precedes Faith. This is how man is made willing in the DAY of GOD'S POWER.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#515
Oct 12, 2017
3,432
535
113
#515
Everlasting-Grace said:
AMEN

it is all done by God.. Just not as a fatalist says, we are not born again first. Then come to faith. we come to faith, then we are born again, Because that which made us dead, is removed (we are justified)
Click to expand...

Romans 10:17

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message
is heard through the word about Christ.


Our salvation was all "arranged" by God. God presented the Gospel which was to become our faith.

When with our soul we believed the Gospel, grace was keeping the depravity of our flesh silent,.
Then with our soul under grace, we chose to believe the faith that God arranged to have come our way.

Romans 10:11

As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Contrary to Calvinism.

It does not say...

As Scripture says, "Anyone he makes believe in him will never be put to shame.” ...

We need to sound sane if sanity is ever to return to our land.

In Christ ...............
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#516
Feb 17, 2024
3,050
411
83
#516
Genez said:
Romans 10:17

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message
is heard through the word about Christ.


Our salvation was all "arranged" by God. God presented the Gospel which was to become our faith.

When with our soul we believed the Gospel, grace was keeping the depravity of our flesh silent,.
Then with our soul under grace, we chose to believe the faith that God arranged to have come our way.

Romans 10:11

As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Contrary to Calvinism.

It does not say...

As Scripture says, "Anyone he makes believe in him will never be put to shame.” ...

We need to sound sane if sanity is ever to return to our land.

In Christ ...............
Click to expand...
But Rom 10:11 doesn't teach how people come to believe in him. And the "how" always involves the Word and the Spirit.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#517
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#517
Rufus said:
Nope. Dead men have no ability to function spiritually. Life precedes Faith. This is how man is made willing in the DAY of GOD'S POWER.
Click to expand...
Nope.

God is a perfect judge, His love can not overrule his justice.

His justice demand a penalty for sin, that penalty is death.

He can not make you alive while you are still under the penalty of sin.. it must be justified..
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#518
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#518
Rufus said:
But Rom 10:11 doesn't teach how people come to believe in him. And the "how" always involves the Word and the Spirit.
Click to expand...
John 3 answers this question.

People in moses day in faiht looked, and lived

People in our day look to the cross in faith and live.

Yes the spirit is involved.. the words Jesus speaks as Jesus said in John 6 are spirit and they are life.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#519
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#519
Everlasting-Grace said:
Nope.

God is a perfect judge, His love can not overrule his justice.

His justice demand a penalty for sin, that penalty is death.

He can not make you alive while you are still under the penalty of sin.. it must be justified..
Click to expand...
Wasn't justification accomplished at the cross? If your only objection is justification, you have no problem. All the sins ever paid for happened 2000 years ago.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#520
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#520
Genez said:
As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Contrary to Calvinism.

It does not say...

As Scripture says, "Anyone he makes believe in him will never be put to shame.” ...

We need to sound sane if sanity is ever to return to our land.

In Christ ...............
Click to expand...
Thank you for sounding sane ... sanity may yet return!! :)
 
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