What Changed?
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The Bible does not specifically address the issue of fallen angels having an opportunity to repent, but we can gain some insight from what the Bible does say. First, Satan (Lucifer) was one of the highest angels, perhaps the highest (Ezekiel 28:14). Lucifer—and all the angels—were continually in God’s presence and had knowledge of the glory of God. Therefore, they had no excuse for rebelling against God and turning away from Him. They were not tempted. Lucifer and the other angels rebelling against God despite what they knew was the utmost evil.
Second, God did not provide a plan of redemption for the angels as He did for mankind. The fall of the human race necessitated an atoning sacrifice for sin, and God provided that sacrifice in Jesus Christ. In His grace, God redeemed the human race and brought glory to Himself.
No such sacrifice was planned for the angels. In addition, God referred to those angels who remain faithful to Him as His “elect angels” (1 Timothy 5:21). We know from the biblical doctrine of election that those whom God elects to salvation will be saved, and nothing can separate them from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Clearly, those angels who rebelled were not “elect angels” of God.
Finally, the Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels would repent even if God gave them the chance (1 Peter 5:8). The fallen angels seem completely devoted to opposing God and attacking God’s people. The Bible says that the severity of God’s judgment varies according to how much knowledge a person possesses (Luke 12:48). The fallen angels, then, with the great knowledge they possessed, are greatly deserving of God’s wrath. source
Second, God did not provide a plan of redemption for the angels as He did for mankind. The fall of the human race necessitated an atoning sacrifice for sin, and God provided that sacrifice in Jesus Christ. In His grace, God redeemed the human race and brought glory to Himself.
No such sacrifice was planned for the angels. In addition, God referred to those angels who remain faithful to Him as His “elect angels” (1 Timothy 5:21). We know from the biblical doctrine of election that those whom God elects to salvation will be saved, and nothing can separate them from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Clearly, those angels who rebelled were not “elect angels” of God.
Finally, the Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels would repent even if God gave them the chance (1 Peter 5:8). The fallen angels seem completely devoted to opposing God and attacking God’s people. The Bible says that the severity of God’s judgment varies according to how much knowledge a person possesses (Luke 12:48). The fallen angels, then, with the great knowledge they possessed, are greatly deserving of God’s wrath. source
Angels could not die spiritually like man did. Even demons perceive spiritual realities that unregenerate men are oblivious to.
So, they did not need to be transformed (born again) into becoming spiritual like we need to be. What the rebellious angels needed was to change their wrong thinking towards God. In other words? They needed to repent.. Not become born again. For they function on a different level than we do. They are spirit and are constantly spiritual.
Angels in the OT have been called 'sons of God.'
And, how does it say God treats his sons?
And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement
that addresses you as a father addresses his son?
It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children.
For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not
disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not
legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. " Hebrews 12:5-8
In other words God receives us with giving us induced suffering as a means to purify our attitude towards Him.
We all must go through some form of suffering that comes from God to get us to turn to Him for our happiness
to be granted afterwards to us from Him.
And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ,
after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make
you strong, firm and steadfast. " 1 Peter 5:10
Unlike Job who glorified God, what did Satan choose to do when God was disciplining him to try to get him to repent?
Satan made himself implacable. Unwilling to change his mind, and then cursed God to His face!
No repentance from Lucifer!
Then Satan began using the suffering he received as his excuse and justification for wanting nothing to do with God...
So how could Satan prove himself correct as being totally justified for what he did, and that God was being wrong?
“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him
and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands,
so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your
hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” Job 1:9-11
Knowing that it now it makes sense why Satan wanted to get Job to curse God to his face.
It was to prove that if anyone is made to suffer like God made Satan to suffer?
That anyone made to suffer in that way would have to curse God to his face!
As we now know... Satan was proven a liar.
For Job glorified God when he proved Satan wrong by refusing to curse God to his face for making him suffer.
Thus, Job removed Satan's excuse and defense for his refusing to repent and return to God.
grace and peace ..............
So, they did not need to be transformed (born again) into becoming spiritual like we need to be. What the rebellious angels needed was to change their wrong thinking towards God. In other words? They needed to repent.. Not become born again. For they function on a different level than we do. They are spirit and are constantly spiritual.
Angels in the OT have been called 'sons of God.'
And, how does it say God treats his sons?
And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement
that addresses you as a father addresses his son?
It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children.
For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not
disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not
legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. " Hebrews 12:5-8
In other words God receives us with giving us induced suffering as a means to purify our attitude towards Him.
We all must go through some form of suffering that comes from God to get us to turn to Him for our happiness
to be granted afterwards to us from Him.
And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ,
after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make
you strong, firm and steadfast. " 1 Peter 5:10
Unlike Job who glorified God, what did Satan choose to do when God was disciplining him to try to get him to repent?
Satan made himself implacable. Unwilling to change his mind, and then cursed God to His face!
No repentance from Lucifer!
Then Satan began using the suffering he received as his excuse and justification for wanting nothing to do with God...
So how could Satan prove himself correct as being totally justified for what he did, and that God was being wrong?
“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him
and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands,
so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your
hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” Job 1:9-11
Knowing that it now it makes sense why Satan wanted to get Job to curse God to his face.
It was to prove that if anyone is made to suffer like God made Satan to suffer?
That anyone made to suffer in that way would have to curse God to his face!
As we now know... Satan was proven a liar.
For Job glorified God when he proved Satan wrong by refusing to curse God to his face for making him suffer.
Thus, Job removed Satan's excuse and defense for his refusing to repent and return to God.
grace and peace ..............
What does any of that have to do with the rebelling angels being given chastisement
and the opportunity to repent and return as you originally said and I responded to?
Where can it be found in Scriptures that the rebelling angels were
given chastisement and the opportunity to repent and return?
and the opportunity to repent and return as you originally said and I responded to?
Where can it be found in Scriptures that the rebelling angels were
given chastisement and the opportunity to repent and return?
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Seems you did not understand me
God does not over rule a persons free will, he works within that free will
He knows a person. So if something will work to bring that person to repentance. God will use that to help them
If God knows no matter what he does, a person will never come to repentance. Well you tell me, what should God do?
God does not over rule a persons free will, he works within that free will
He knows a person. So if something will work to bring that person to repentance. God will use that to help them
If God knows no matter what he does, a person will never come to repentance. Well you tell me, what should God do?
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Cookie cutting for me came to me from religion, not God, even though it appeared as God through that other person doing the cookie cutting, it was not.
That persons self interest Was that persons income
God loves us all, otherwise God would have had Son go to that cross and die once for us all to get us all reconciled by his done work first, before any new life could get given us from Father to us in the risen Son for us, at least me this I see, none of me, all of God thankfully
That persons self interest Was that persons income
God loves us all, otherwise God would have had Son go to that cross and die once for us all to get us all reconciled by his done work first, before any new life could get given us from Father to us in the risen Son for us, at least me this I see, none of me, all of God thankfully
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You know it would be helpful if you used scripture passages that were soteriological like...
Apostle John who taught that God sent the gospel so that “you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” John 20:31 (notice the order of that).
You can tell me a millions times we all have the heart of Hitler, and yet nowhere does scripture state with regards to believing the Gospel, the condition and responsibility of the person who hears the Gospel, that that person was born morally incapable of responding to the purpose and power inherent in the Gospel as part of the indirect work of the Holy Spirit as clearly stated by @Beckworth.
John 5:40
“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”
Now, if Calvinism’s ordo salutis is correct, shouldn’t this read, “I refused you LIFE so that you could not come to me.”
And yes audience relevance and historical context ... and scripture being written for us, but not to us, is a basic first principle method of interpretation, which of course borderline Calvinists or full on TULIP subscribers always want to suppress/neglect/refute.
John 3:18 He that believeth (NO ENABLED TO BELIEVE) on him is not condemned: but he that believeth (NO ENABLED TO BELIEVE) not is condemned already, because he hath not believed (NOT ENABLED TO NOT BELIEVE)in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth(NO ENABLED TO BELIEVE) on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth (NO ENABLED TO NOT to BELIEVE) not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
To suggest that it is not possible for a person to choose to believe is contrary to what is presented very plainly in Scripture.
You want to adhere to a false soteriology that is ultimately your free will choice!
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God created man in His image.
God is sovereign.
Therefore, man was created with his own element of sovereignty.
That area of sovereignty is found in the volition of man.
That sovereignty of man is so honored and acknowledged by God?
That God will allow a soul to reject Him if that is what that soul truly desires.
To find out how man wishes to choose for, or against Him?
God must remove the dominating influence of the flesh over a man's soul.
For with the fallen flesh being allowed to function as it normally does?
Would mean that no soul could possible desire God.
That's the catch.
One that Calvinists trip over with its inculcating belief system.
Grace in its actual function?
In power suppresses the overbearing and dominate influence of the flesh over a man's soul.
And, in that state of grace which God gives while drawing a person?
In effect, with flesh suppressed, and rendered ineffectual?
That soul can now make a choice freely, either for believing, or rejecting Christ.
Its is the soul that chooses for the Lord.
But, without God giving grace to that person to suppress his flesh?
He would not have been able to believe.
Or, for that matter. Freely reject!
Without grace controlling the flesh no one could be held accountable for their rejection of God!
Grace that was given to draw us makes us all accountable for our choice!
When Jesus said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him?
He was not meaning that only those who become saved are drawn by God.
It was Jesus crushing the legalistic notion of those who thought salvation is secured by works!
STOP SEEKING WORKS TO DO! God must bring you to salvation by drawing you!
Too many think that grace is just another way of saying 'the love of God.'
Whereas grace is divine power applied to a person, which causes that person to be enabled to do God's will.
Yet, man having sovereignty? Because of being in God's image?.. Can still reject and refuse what grace has to offer.
We need to get out of this childish stage in thinking if more believers can be found to mature in Christ to God's glory.
The Bible says that God's grace is power. Not unmerited favor. Power from God that is given to us,
so God can make us enabled to do His will... Which in turn, doing His will? - Will ironically merit Hisfavor!
We have been faked newsed about grace for too long on this matter.
grace and peace!
God is sovereign.
Therefore, man was created with his own element of sovereignty.
That area of sovereignty is found in the volition of man.
That sovereignty of man is so honored and acknowledged by God?
That God will allow a soul to reject Him if that is what that soul truly desires.
To find out how man wishes to choose for, or against Him?
God must remove the dominating influence of the flesh over a man's soul.
For with the fallen flesh being allowed to function as it normally does?
Would mean that no soul could possible desire God.
That's the catch.
One that Calvinists trip over with its inculcating belief system.
Grace in its actual function?
In power suppresses the overbearing and dominate influence of the flesh over a man's soul.
And, in that state of grace which God gives while drawing a person?
In effect, with flesh suppressed, and rendered ineffectual?
That soul can now make a choice freely, either for believing, or rejecting Christ.
Its is the soul that chooses for the Lord.
But, without God giving grace to that person to suppress his flesh?
He would not have been able to believe.
Or, for that matter. Freely reject!
Without grace controlling the flesh no one could be held accountable for their rejection of God!
Grace that was given to draw us makes us all accountable for our choice!
When Jesus said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him?
He was not meaning that only those who become saved are drawn by God.
It was Jesus crushing the legalistic notion of those who thought salvation is secured by works!
STOP SEEKING WORKS TO DO! God must bring you to salvation by drawing you!
Too many think that grace is just another way of saying 'the love of God.'
Whereas grace is divine power applied to a person, which causes that person to be enabled to do God's will.
Yet, man having sovereignty? Because of being in God's image?.. Can still reject and refuse what grace has to offer.
We need to get out of this childish stage in thinking if more believers can be found to mature in Christ to God's glory.
Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest
upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions,
in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Corinthians 12:8-10
The Bible says that God's grace is power. Not unmerited favor. Power from God that is given to us,
so God can make us enabled to do His will... Which in turn, doing His will? - Will ironically merit Hisfavor!
We have been faked newsed about grace for too long on this matter.
grace and peace!
Not true. A command is understood as a law. God commands all people everywhere to repent. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. It's there in black and white (and now purple) and has been presented to you multiple times but you refuse to see it. Open your eyes. God grants repentance. God gives faith. You deny all these Scriptural truths.
Romans 8:6-7
Romans 8:6-7
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^^ Speaking of the natural man, of course! God circumcises our hearts so we may love Him...
Another inconvenient truth for @HeIsHere
Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
Another inconvenient truth for @HeIsHere
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
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1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
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