Salvation is a Free Gift.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,659
568
113
You presented the Gospel of John which is Jesus talking to the JEWS so that condition fits the application of your verses. And that condition says it's still in effect TO THIS VERY DAY!!
No. It is to all those not His sheep.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,996
29,365
113
In that case, it wouldn't be a free gift. Anything that someone must do to obtain it, makes it theirs
only by their doing, and therefore, not a free gift. To be truly free, it must be imputed to someone,
placed into their possession in spite of, and apart from, anything they may do, otherwise, it isn't free.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe
on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,080
6,578
113
62
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe
on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
Do you believe receiving is of necessity active, or can it be passive? For example, if I went to your bank and deposited $100.00 in your account, would you have received it? Did you have to do anything to receive it?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Misapplication of Scripture. The lost are those who reject the Gospel, not those who are supposedly "elected" to Hell. You have no clue about the Gospel and you persist in your false beliefs. So actually your mind is blinded.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
No. It is to all those not His sheep.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
You are pitting what Paul explained is the condition of the Jews that the Prophets prophesied with Paul speaking about the completed Gospel. The verses you used the Gospel was still being played out. You aren't even correct with logistics let alone with Biblical collation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,996
29,365
113
Do you believe receiving is of necessity active, or can it be passive? For example, if I went to your bank and
deposited $100.00 in your account, would you have received it? Did you have to do anything to receive it?
How does it benefit me if I never withdraw it or spend it? Have I received it if it just sits there and does nothing?
Maybe it accrues interest. But that is getting away from what Scripture says, which is that those who receive
Jesus Christ are given the power to become sons of God, born of God.



Ephesians 1:13-14
:)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,080
6,578
113
62
How does it benefit me if I never withdraw it or spend it? Have I received it if it just sits there and does nothing?
Maybe it accrues interest. But that is getting away from what Scripture says, which is that those who receive
Jesus Christ are given the power to become sons of God, born of God.



Ephesians 1:13-14
:)
I'll come back to receiving again. What is the power that is given? What makes someone born of God?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,996
29,365
113
I'll come back to receiving again. What is the power that is given? What makes someone born of God?
Repentance, and belief in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the remission
of sins, which reconciles us to God and attains to life ever after. By grace, through faith.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,080
6,578
113
62
Repentance, and belief in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the remission
of sins, which reconciles us to God and attains to life ever after. By grace, through faith.
What is the power?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,996
29,365
113
Isn't it the power of God to transform us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light?

He: has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light. He has rescued
us from the dominion of
darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:12b-13
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,080
6,578
113
62
Isn't it the power of God to transform us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light?

He: has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light. He has rescued
us from the dominion of
darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,
in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:12b-13
Right. It's the Holy Spirit. And it is the Spirit that is the power to become a son of God. It is He who is deposited in you. But unlike a deposit in your bank account, He doesn't wait to be accessed. He comes rarin' to go.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,996
29,365
113
Right. It's the Holy Spirit. And it is the Spirit that is the power to become a son of God. It is He who is deposited
in you. But unlike a deposit in your bank account, He doesn't wait to be accessed. He comes rarin' to go.
What of repentance and belief?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,233
1,127
113
New Zealand
Gotta be careful not to make repentance into a work here..or belief into a work.

Repentance is a change of mind, heart toward Jesus Christ so we can believe in Him. It isn't lessening sin in our lives before salvation is given.

And this is led by Him. He allows us to believe.

Most of the book of John shows this. And Romans 10.

Gotta be careful not making repentance or belief into self effort to be saved.
 

Foghorn

Active member
May 6, 2024
131
29
28
christcentered.community.forum
Sure, I might not be explaining it clearly in my wording.
No problem. I appreciate you replying.

While our salvation was freely paid for by Jesus Christ, the effects of salvation are not automatic.
Automatic is a word I am not used to in theological discussions. It does have a ring to it as, since Christ was crucified for your sins, "Bam" you are now automatically saved. I don't in any way agree with that either.

There must be a real world response of faith by the penitent in order for us to be justified.
I also believe man is active in salvation. Not in the sense he contributes to his salvation, but as Romans 10 teaches, man must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.
It's by grace man is saved. Through faith, which isn't of ourselves, it's a gift. This gift of faith is our faith, and we must believe. Faith = Justification.

If we had to do nothing, then the entire world would go to heaven,
Well that would depend on whom Christ died for, if he didn't die for the entire world, then not everyone would be saved.


because every one would automatically be justified by Christ’s death.
But it's belief/faith that justifies us.

I’m not a universalist,
Thankfully.

this is why I believe that the merits of Christ’s death are only accounted to us when we repent.
But where do you get this teaching from scripture?
And yes, you are sort of right, repentance and faith are gifts from God,
:cool:
however the Lord doesn’t grant them to the entire world! Thanks.
That's obvious.
 

Foghorn

Active member
May 6, 2024
131
29
28
christcentered.community.forum
Gotta be careful not to make repentance into a work here..or belief into a work.

Repentance is a change of mind, heart toward Jesus Christ so we can believe in Him.
So you can believe in him? Would you explain that? How repentance makes it so we can believe in Jesus.

Thanks
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,233
1,127
113
New Zealand
So you can believe in him? Would you explain that? How repentance makes it so we can believe in Jesus.

Thanks
Repent would be going from a state of unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ. Belief that He is God, that He died and rose again, that by belief in Him you have eternal life.

This being allowed and led by Jesus through the Holy Spirit.