The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

I'll ask you again

Is all life in the book of life to begin with

If you answer yes or no I'll give you a biscuit 😊

I apologize up front for butting in, if you find this post unwanted. I would send you a private message but alas I am not a paying subscriber. I donate but do not subscribe.

I have some other things, related to the subject above, to share with you.

Like you, early in my life I knew about the Gospel message. I seemed to have a soft spot in my heart for Jesus Christ and knew, some how, that many things I saw in the church were either just not right or were hypocritical. Maybe, this is just one of the ways that our Lord keeps us safe until we are Regenerated. However, these were not guiding principles in my life. I was still running my life as a materialist and as if I couldn't wait to get to hell. Like many unbelievers, I tried to be a "good person" and maybe, just maybe, that would be good enough for God.

When time came to begin a true "conversion" experience, things happened very quickly. So much so, I had two burning questions: 1) What changed in my life and 2} Why now?

I knew the Bible had the answers - not a church - but the Bible. I dug in deep immediately and the Lord began to show me, within weeks, the answers I was looking for. These would be many of the great Doctrines of Faith. Only later, did I realize the need to assemble with like minded believers, couched in the Truth of God's Doctrines. Shortly after this, I came to know that the Lord had given me the gift of "teaching". How did I know this? Because I had a burning desire, to research and study God's word and share it with others. I learned to parse the Greek text because I didn't trust any translation and built a pretty good library over the years. In particular, to both sides of the Soteriological question. I studied the Scriptures because it was fun and my greatest enjoyment came from there and showing others. Only through these studies and God's revelatory grace did I begin to understand, that in order to have the proper understanding and not just knowledge, Doctrines had to be seen in both the "Eternal light" and the "Temporal light".

One of the problems, with having the gift of teaching though, is that it is easy to get frustrated with others who don't share your enthusiasm for every little detail of a Doctrinal subject. It took me years to understand that not all believers are gifted in the same way and as hard as I might, I still become frustrated. I do not mean to magnify myself. Just wanted to give you some background.

That brings me back to the two questions in my Conversion - what changed? Why Now?

The so called concept of "free will", does not answer these questions. Instead it makes Salvation a mystery and leaves one still feeling confused. Questions go unanswered. Why now and not fifteen years ago? Why do I approach the Gospel differently now? Why do the sins in my life bother me greatly now and not back then? If it is solely my choice, then why did I pick now? If I didn't really care back then, why do I care now?

Only in understanding PROPERLY - God's eternality, Sovereignty, Purpose and Execution, can one truly understand Soteriology and how it functions. On the Temporal surface, the Gospel message is simple. Repent and Believe in the resurrected Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. Believe in the TRUTH, with all you heart, mind and soul.

But in understanding "what changed in my life and why now" - so much more must be known but once known, then the questions are answered and the mystery falls away. Confusion is replaced with assurance.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you but I really wanted to reach out because I care about people and Love God's Saints.

Okay I am done. You are unbelievably childish. Not to mention disrespectful, if you even understand the meaning of that word.

If we do not consider harmonizing the scriptures, we will not be able to interpret them, by rightly dividing the word of God.

The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, will not, and indeed, can not, have faith in the things of the Spirit. Only those that have been born again spiritually, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can have faith in spiritual things. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22)

Thank you for your response to me, and no, not butting in at all! I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, attended separate schools until high school (only one of my ten siblings opted for the only Catholic high school in our city), but honestly do not recall hearing the gospel message at all during all of those years. In fact, it was partially curiosity about Who Jesus was/is that prompted me to check out the neighbourhood church where the life of Jesus was being shown via the gospel of Luke over two Saturday evenings @ Passover, at the end of my marriage. My life was a pretty big mess then and I was in a lot of emotional pain at the time. I had a profound God encounter, which I walked away from thing, gee, it's too bad God let me know I was loved and forgiven in a church setting. Ha. I had been trying to escape all that organized religion stuff for years. I said fifteen, but it was sixteen years later before I became a believer, following another Divine intervention a year previously. Now the first encounter had probably gone some distance in saving my life, and I did "treasure in my heart" the knowledge that God loved and forgave me, but I had a huge problem with that God, and thought there must be something else, and I set out trying to discover what that was. Fifteen years later when God once again revealed Himself to me was not so warm and fuzzy. In fact, I was stricken with the fear of God, and other things happened which absolutely terrified me. I rarely tell the details of those things because they are so other worldly. Though I still could not believe in the Biblical God, soon after I met someone who told me Who Jesus was in a way I could understand and accept, and I started going to church... and it was during that time, while attending the Alpha Course, that I realized I finally needed no more convincing of the Truth of God's Word. I too had a burning desire to research and study God's word and share it with others. I attended multiple churches and services and fellowship meetings every week in those days... but I never learned Greek. Kudos to you for doing so. I had always known there was something behind all we could see, and credited God with many things before I actually came to believe in Him and put my faith in His plan for humanity via the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ. Coming to that place of truly believing was a major turning point in my life and really turned my whole world upside down... in a good way!

Wow. How are these people allowed on a Christian Forum?

Quite a few of us are wondering the same thing

Yes applying reasoning to your own understanding is one thing.

not placing yourself in the position whom the lord is speaking to is another

And placing yourself in the man authority is another

And not placing your self in only whom the lord is speaking to is another, as he's also speaking the same thing to whom is speaking it

But how many people have you sent to hell this last month, I believe the count is quite high isn't it.

Soooooooooo

Show scripture who had faith in the old testament

When you discover what faith really is you will stop asking such a question....

Yes, but all is well brother. Rest assured I’m not a Calvinist.

well the op was not really about Calvinism...people have introduced it, but that was not the op

the op was about the idea that there were 2 classes of Christian

one being the 'elect', meaning you were chosen to be saved before being born
and
two the other being those who were not elect but yet could 'choose' to be saved

there are quite a few threads on Calvinism so no need to go there....but try to hold anyone to the actual op is like herding cats

there have been claims and false accustions about the op, saying it was started to gossip and so on. none of that is true and the op itself is plain enough with no ulterior motives

for the record, I certainly do not hold to the Bible saying there are 2 classes of believers or 2 ways to be saved

Quite a few of us are wondering the same thing

I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.

This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.

It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.

While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.

Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.

For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.

Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.

That's about it.

I Discovered That watching was a good way to observe faith 😂

Hearing and believing is not the cause of eternal salvation=deliverance, but it is the cause, of those who have already been promised of an inheritance of heaven ((Heb 9:15), to be delivered=saved, as they sojourn here on earth, when they come unto a knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3).

Unless I'm mistaken follower of Shiloh means a follower of tranquil peace does it not

Do you even remember the Sabbath, Shabbat, at all.

Prayer matters. Prayer can cause things to happen that maybe would not have happened unless someone prayed. God responds to our prayers, yes?

For its God's way of letting us to know what is to come to pass in His plan for our lives.