Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

are you sure? think about it.

before this statement the Lord God makes to Moses, we have the golden calf incident. then God says to Moses, (my paraphrase) leave this place, you and the people YOU brought out of Egypt. God tells him He'll send an angel to drive out the Caananites, etc, but He won't go with them because they're a stiff-necked people and He might destroy them on the way.

Moses, as mediator, pleads with God for the people, calling them GOD'S people. God agrees to do as Moses asked. Moses asks the famous favor, show me Your glory.

God tells Moses He'll make His goodness pass before him, saying I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God is telling Moses mercy and compassion are His to bestow as He wishes. He has chosen not only to bestow them on Moses, but on the people Moses pleads for. not to all people; not to the Amorites or the Hittites -- they face destruction. but in this instance to the ones Moses intercedes for, to God's people.

it's no different to the usage in Romans.

And what of this verse?

Romans 5:15, 18

“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, (Adam) how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!”


And...

“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10

Cherry-picking again, heh?

Also, why didn't you quote all of verse 27, which reads

Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us?
NIV

God desires for men to seek him but that doesn't mean that any unregenerate sinner will or can desire to seek him!

And you forget that NO ONE seeks God (Rom 3:11). Wanna know why? Because the sinful mind is hostile toward (Rom 8:7), so how would anyone with such a mind want to seek God, want to find him, want to know him? Why do you think Jesus said this:

Luke 19:10
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"?
NIV

Or that he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance?

And have you also forgotten the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What did the Father say about the prodigal to his brother? Do you recall? In fact, the father in the parable said this twice to drive home the point!

Luke 15:24, 32
24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate... 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
NIV

Here's a newsflash for you: The Dead can't seek and find anything. And besides, the father in the story was never lost, it was the son who was lost, remember? (I always love it when some professing Christian tells me that he "found God". My retort usually is, "Where did you lose him?")

And then you have forgotten this also:

Isa 65:1
65:1

"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
NIV

The play on words, notwithstanding, do you know who that "nation" is to whom God revealed himself? If you said that it is the same "nation" to whom Jesus gave the Kingdom when he took it away from Israel, you'd be right on the mark. The nation is the Church.

Do you have anymore pearls of wisdom for us this cloudy, gray morning?

God in Son Jesus as Jesus in God for us all went to that cross for us all

God decides who are in and who are not in. By those that are sincere to be new, not as those that got Jesus killed in order to get rid of him, doing good for the people then. Yet did not get rid of him. He is risen forever in Spirit and Truth, at least this I see as he made an open spectacle of those that wanted him dead, revealed to me in Col 2, yet great to read Chapter one first, thanks, all are called, all are given the choice to believe God in what by Son is done for them to live new in God's Spirit and Truth or not
Have a great day

I did quote verse 27

27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.

[HE] in verse 27 is GOD!

So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him.


Blows your doctrine out of the water claiming God made men for Hell when God clearly made a way for man to find Him.

I did quote verse 27

27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.

[HE] in verse 27 is GOD!

So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him.


Blows your doctrine out of the water claiming God made men for Hell when God clearly made a way for man to find Him.

In your pipe dream! Besides, I refuted your gross misinterpretation in my 4979 with several passages that contradict your interpretation taken from some weird bible translation to boot. From what paraphrase version did you quote? None of my translations come even close to yours:

Acts 17:27
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
KJV

Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
ESV

Acts 17:27
27 So that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after Him and find Him, although He is not far from each one of us.
AMP

Acts 17:27
27 that they may seek God; if indeed they might feel after him and find him, although he is not far from each one of us:
Darby

Acts 17:27

27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:
ASV

Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
NASB

Acts 17:27
27 "His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him — though he is not far from any one of us.
NLT

Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
RSV

Answer me this: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?

P.S. God WANTED Israel to keep his Mosaic Law Covenant! How did that work out for Israel and Judah?

Wow! I learn something new here everyday. The entire world is Christ's sheep for whom he laid down his life.

Pipe Dream?

The fact is God made a way so man could seek Him.

It's in every version of scripture you posted.

Just because man does not seek God does not take away that God created a way.

You just love your MYTH god who sends people to Hell via predestination.
If you love that god so much maybe it will grant you the same wish.

God MADE a way for Israel to obey his Holy Law perfectly. Again, how did that work out for Israel?

Why don't you tell us what translation you took Act 17:27? Why are you keeping it a secret? All my translations basically read that "IF PERHAPS they MIGHT grope for him and find him..."

None of the translations say that men would actually seek God! Nor do any say that God decreed that they would seek him. But scripture does say that NO ONE seeks after God because there is none righteous and NO ONE is good! Profane hearts filled with evil will never, never seek after a good. holy God!

Re predestination: You're looking at it all wrong. God didn't predestine ALL fallen mankind to hell like he has done with the fallen angels, has he? So, predestination could be a lot worse. Instead of being thankful that God graciously decreed mankind's cup to be "half" full, you rail against God and the doctrine because you see the cup as being "half" empty. I mean really...what part of Rom 9:21 can't you understand?

Rom 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV

So...if you want to beat your chest and brag how God made a way for the sons of men to seek him, I will boast how the Sovereign Potter has the right to actually make by his decree two different lumps from one lump for his purposes.

You keep railing against God because in your heart of hearts you think God is morally obligated to save mankind...by at least giving everyone under the sun an equal shot at grabbing the gold ring on the merry-go-round of life. If God doesn't run the show as an EOS (Equal Opportunity Savior), then he's unfair, unjust, arbitrary, tyrannical, etc. Poor Adam really got the short end of the stick, didn't he, when God sovereignly excluded him from the Woman's seed? But He really didn't have to save either one of them!

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?

Keep posting paragraph after paragraph because the fact is God DID make a way for all lost humans to find Him.

As much as you hate that fact it is the TRUTH...God made a way for ALL humans to find Him.

This also clears up that God died in John 3:16 for EVERY HUMAN Being who ever was born.

I love the TRUTH, it proves the doctrines of Hell for what they are, LIES!!!

So God accepted Jesus' payment for people's sins, and still sends some to hell for sins that have been paid for?
Is this just? Why or why not?

People still need to be saved.
You know I was never making that type of point but showing how good God is by making a way for people.
Just like God made a way through Jesus for us.

Your point on God making a way for man to seek Him is correct, but your reasoning is flawed. The way to seek God is in Christ...He is the way. The verses in Acts 17 do not mean as you have said.
And my question still stands. If indeed Jesus has paid for the sins of every human past, present, and future, on what basis does God send someone to hell?

God does not send anyone to hell; the non-elect choose to go to hell.

Your point on God making a way for man to seek Him is correct, but your reasoning is flawed. The way to seek God is in Christ...He is the way. The verses in Acts 17 do not mean as you have said.
And my question still stands. If indeed Jesus has paid for the sins of every human past, present, and future, on what basis does God send someone to hell?

My reasoning is not Reformed you mean, which is flawed.
But I stand by my statement.
Before Jesus was on earth, God still made a way so man could seek and find Him.

It has nothing to do with reformed or not. It's simply not supported by the scripture.

Through ONE MAN (verse 26), God did verse 27...
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.

How can you say it's not supported by Scripture when verse 27, is scripture and clearly proclaims...So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him??

This is Your precious PAUL preaching, you know, the man you esteem so highly and equal his words to God's!!

Sure, God desires men to seek after Him. He also seeks the worship of mankind. But these verses do not say that they can.