Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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Language Scholars like Linguist are useless because they cannot even interpret speaking in tongues.
2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
They cannot understand so why would you use them to define the usage of "world?"
2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
They cannot understand so why would you use them to define the usage of "world?"
Oh...so, I guess the U.N. should fire all their language translators because none of them can understand Tonguese, heh?
What in the world do the KNOWN languages of this planet have to do with the unknown spiritual language of tongues? You are totally shot. You will literally grasp at anything to avoid the plain truth of scripture. Pathetic and sad.
What in the world do the KNOWN languages of this planet have to do with the unknown spiritual language of tongues? You are totally shot. You will literally grasp at anything to avoid the plain truth of scripture. Pathetic and sad.
All the writers of scripture have done this. Do you think that the various books of the bible came into existence inside a vacuum? That none of the writers of scripture had any rational reasons for writing what they did? Were all the writers of scripture just mind-numb, mechanical robots through whom the Spirit dictated his messages?
Also, if you avoid apostolic authority, you do so at your own peril. If you reject or diminish or demean or disregard any teaching by any apostle, you do that to Christ's teaching as well! For he is the Author of all the NT (Jn 16:12-15).
You might want to bring yourself up to speed on what the NT says about Apostolic Authority: Mat 10:40; 16:19; 18:18; Jn 17:20; Act 2:42; Rom 16:17-19; Eph 2:19-20; 1Thes 2:4-6; 4:8; 2Thes 3:14; 2Cor 10:6-13; Philem 8, 21. You're obviously ignorant of the fact that Christ's Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets with Christ himself being the chief cornerstone.
Also, if you avoid apostolic authority, you do so at your own peril. If you reject or diminish or demean or disregard any teaching by any apostle, you do that to Christ's teaching as well! For he is the Author of all the NT (Jn 16:12-15).
You might want to bring yourself up to speed on what the NT says about Apostolic Authority: Mat 10:40; 16:19; 18:18; Jn 17:20; Act 2:42; Rom 16:17-19; Eph 2:19-20; 1Thes 2:4-6; 4:8; 2Thes 3:14; 2Cor 10:6-13; Philem 8, 21. You're obviously ignorant of the fact that Christ's Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets with Christ himself being the chief cornerstone.
So, you seem to be implying that just the "inspired words of God" could be fallible since man's understanding is fallible, correct?
But at the same time, how did the "literal words from God" get on paper: Did the Holy Spirit bypass human agency and write those on parchment directly with his finger or did those literal words also come through the medium of God's apostles and prophets?
OY VEY!!!
Now, "world" in Jn 3:16 has numerous meanings. Universe doesn't fit the context since there is no biblical record that the sons of men (for whom Christ died) live anywhere other than on this little planet. Besides, this the term "kosmos" has a more narrow meaning:
kosmos
NT:2889 kosmos (kos'-mos); probably from the base of NT:2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):
KJV - adorning, world.
Notice at the very end in brackets "morally". (Some translators also say spiritually.) And also notice that this term is used in the wide or narrow sense. And this moral/spiritual application makes perfectly good sense because Spiritually or Morally there are only TWO kinds of people in this world. In Jn 3:16, it's used in the narrow sense to denote who God loves -- which cannot be sinners, according to numerous scripture. Therefore, who God loves in this passage are all the "whoevers" of this world who come to believe on his His Son. The "whosoever" qualifies the extent of God's love.
But in Jn 17:9, we have the opposite scenario. Jesus omitted the "world" from his prayer because he prayed only for the two groups of elect he specifically mentioned in the chapter. "World" in this passage, therefore, is used in the negative sense and denotes the world of non-elect unbelievers.
Also, as stated previously, the nation Israel itself sets the precedent for this kind of usage for the term "world", since Paul tell us in Rom 9 that there are two distinct groups of Israelites -- Israel according to the flesh (mere physical lineage) and spiritual Israel according to the Promise.
Jesus tells us in the Good Shepherd discourse that he laid down his life for his sheep, making no mention of the goats in this world; but instead telling us elsewhere that the day would come when he would judge and condemn the goats of this world. He also mentions two flocks of sheep (Israel according to the Promise) and the elect Gentiles who would be brought in to join the Jewish flock, so that the two flocks will become one.
Also, at the Last Supper, Jesus himself limited the extent of his atoning work's application to just "you" or "many". Jesus had only one group in mind, and it was not the entire world in the distributive sense.
In Gal 3:22 Paul tells us that "the whole world" is a prisoner of sin; yet the world this can't be true in the distributive sense since Paul teaches us elsewhere that sin shall not be a master over us. John also taught that no born of God can live a lifestyle of sin. So again, "whole world" is being used to denote the world of unbelievers.
In fact, John tells us in 1Jn 5:19 the "whole world" lies under the power of the evil one; yet this cannot be true since the apostle said earlier that "no one born of God can keep on sinning" (1Jn 3:9). Or did John contradict himself? Or maybe 1 John isn't divinely inspired? Or do we just have another situation here where "whole world" is used in a narrow sense to denote the the ungodly world of unbelievers?
To sum up, all these metaphors and groups can be traced back to their origin in Gen 3:15, wherein God immediately after the Fall SOVEREIGNLY DECREED (without consulting with any human being, or getting any human's permission) that from now on there would be two distinct moral/spiritual groups of people in this world: The godly seed of the Woman and the ungodly seed of the Serpent. There is no third seed. (And the First Adam certainly didn't descend from Eve, did he!?) So, from the very beginning, not only did we have the divine decree, but we had a "sheep" and a "goat" for our first parents! (And just as an interesting aside, a goat's head is a satanic symbol, is it not!?)
Again, scripture is self-interpreting to those who are open to seeing or hearing what it plainly says. Not only is scripture self-interpreting but it is internally consistent with itself, which if what we should expect since God cannot lie.
Mr. Shiloh sir, I don't mean to be insulting but your understanding God's Word is as shallow as a small mud puddle. You have burdened God's Word with so much of your personal, presuppositional, prejudicial baggage that all you can do now is try to justify your "free will theological system" with a grand performance of mental gymnastics that would put to shame any legitimate gymnast's physical performance!
But at the same time, how did the "literal words from God" get on paper: Did the Holy Spirit bypass human agency and write those on parchment directly with his finger or did those literal words also come through the medium of God's apostles and prophets?
OY VEY!!!
Now, "world" in Jn 3:16 has numerous meanings. Universe doesn't fit the context since there is no biblical record that the sons of men (for whom Christ died) live anywhere other than on this little planet. Besides, this the term "kosmos" has a more narrow meaning:
kosmos
NT:2889 kosmos (kos'-mos); probably from the base of NT:2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):
KJV - adorning, world.
Notice at the very end in brackets "morally". (Some translators also say spiritually.) And also notice that this term is used in the wide or narrow sense. And this moral/spiritual application makes perfectly good sense because Spiritually or Morally there are only TWO kinds of people in this world. In Jn 3:16, it's used in the narrow sense to denote who God loves -- which cannot be sinners, according to numerous scripture. Therefore, who God loves in this passage are all the "whoevers" of this world who come to believe on his His Son. The "whosoever" qualifies the extent of God's love.
But in Jn 17:9, we have the opposite scenario. Jesus omitted the "world" from his prayer because he prayed only for the two groups of elect he specifically mentioned in the chapter. "World" in this passage, therefore, is used in the negative sense and denotes the world of non-elect unbelievers.
Also, as stated previously, the nation Israel itself sets the precedent for this kind of usage for the term "world", since Paul tell us in Rom 9 that there are two distinct groups of Israelites -- Israel according to the flesh (mere physical lineage) and spiritual Israel according to the Promise.
Jesus tells us in the Good Shepherd discourse that he laid down his life for his sheep, making no mention of the goats in this world; but instead telling us elsewhere that the day would come when he would judge and condemn the goats of this world. He also mentions two flocks of sheep (Israel according to the Promise) and the elect Gentiles who would be brought in to join the Jewish flock, so that the two flocks will become one.
Also, at the Last Supper, Jesus himself limited the extent of his atoning work's application to just "you" or "many". Jesus had only one group in mind, and it was not the entire world in the distributive sense.
In Gal 3:22 Paul tells us that "the whole world" is a prisoner of sin; yet the world this can't be true in the distributive sense since Paul teaches us elsewhere that sin shall not be a master over us. John also taught that no born of God can live a lifestyle of sin. So again, "whole world" is being used to denote the world of unbelievers.
In fact, John tells us in 1Jn 5:19 the "whole world" lies under the power of the evil one; yet this cannot be true since the apostle said earlier that "no one born of God can keep on sinning" (1Jn 3:9). Or did John contradict himself? Or maybe 1 John isn't divinely inspired? Or do we just have another situation here where "whole world" is used in a narrow sense to denote the the ungodly world of unbelievers?
To sum up, all these metaphors and groups can be traced back to their origin in Gen 3:15, wherein God immediately after the Fall SOVEREIGNLY DECREED (without consulting with any human being, or getting any human's permission) that from now on there would be two distinct moral/spiritual groups of people in this world: The godly seed of the Woman and the ungodly seed of the Serpent. There is no third seed. (And the First Adam certainly didn't descend from Eve, did he!?) So, from the very beginning, not only did we have the divine decree, but we had a "sheep" and a "goat" for our first parents! (And just as an interesting aside, a goat's head is a satanic symbol, is it not!?)
Again, scripture is self-interpreting to those who are open to seeing or hearing what it plainly says. Not only is scripture self-interpreting but it is internally consistent with itself, which if what we should expect since God cannot lie.
Mr. Shiloh sir, I don't mean to be insulting but your understanding God's Word is as shallow as a small mud puddle. You have burdened God's Word with so much of your personal, presuppositional, prejudicial baggage that all you can do now is try to justify your "free will theological system" with a grand performance of mental gymnastics that would put to shame any legitimate gymnast's physical performance!
So, you seem to be implying that just the "inspired words of God" could be fallible since man's understanding is fallible, correct?
But at the same time, how did the "literal words from God" get on paper: Did the Holy Spirit bypass human agency and write those on parchment directly with his finger or did those literal words also come through the medium of God's apostles and prophets?
OY VEY!!!
Now, "world" in Jn 3:16 has numerous meanings. Universe doesn't fit the context since there is no biblical record that the sons of men (for whom Christ died) live anywhere other than on this little planet. Besides, this the term "kosmos" has a more narrow meaning:
kosmos
NT:2889 kosmos (kos'-mos); probably from the base of NT:2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):
KJV - adorning, world.
Notice at the very end in brackets "morally". (Some translators also say spiritually.) And also notice that this term is used in the wide or narrow sense. And this moral/spiritual application makes perfectly good sense because Spiritually or Morally there are only TWO kinds of people in this world. In Jn 3:16, it's used in the narrow sense to denote who God loves -- which cannot be sinners, according to numerous scripture. Therefore, who God loves in this passage are all the "whoevers" of this world who come to believe on his His Son. The "whosoever" qualifies the extent of God's love.
But in Jn 17:9, we have the opposite scenario. Jesus omitted the "world" from his prayer because he prayed only for the two groups of elect he specifically mentioned in the chapter. "World" in this passage, therefore, is used in the negative sense and denotes the world of non-elect unbelievers.
Also, as stated previously, the nation Israel itself sets the precedent for this kind of usage for the term "world", since Paul tell us in Rom 9 that there are two distinct groups of Israelites -- Israel according to the flesh (mere physical lineage) and spiritual Israel according to the Promise.
Jesus tells us in the Good Shepherd discourse that he laid down his life for his sheep, making no mention of the goats in this world; but instead telling us elsewhere that the day would come when he would judge and condemn the goats of this world. He also mentions two flocks of sheep (Israel according to the Promise) and the elect Gentiles who would be brought in to join the Jewish flock, so that the two flocks will become one.
Also, at the Last Supper, Jesus himself limited the extent of his atoning work's application to just "you" or "many". Jesus had only one group in mind, and it was not the entire world in the distributive sense.
In Gal 3:22 Paul tells us that "the whole world" is a prisoner of sin; yet the world this can't be true in the distributive sense since Paul teaches us elsewhere that sin shall not be a master over us. John also taught that no born of God can live a lifestyle of sin. So again, "whole world" is being used to denote the world of unbelievers.
In fact, John tells us in 1Jn 5:19 the "whole world" lies under the power of the evil one; yet this cannot be true since the apostle said earlier that "no one born of God can keep on sinning" (1Jn 3:9). Or did John contradict himself? Or maybe 1 John isn't divinely inspired? Or do we just have another situation here where "whole world" is used in a narrow sense to denote the the ungodly world of unbelievers?
To sum up, all these metaphors and groups can be traced back to their origin in Gen 3:15, wherein God immediately after the Fall SOVEREIGNLY DECREED (without consulting with any human being, or getting any human's permission) that from now on there would be two distinct moral/spiritual groups of people in this world: The godly seed of the Woman and the ungodly seed of the Serpent. There is no third seed. (And the First Adam certainly didn't descend from Eve, did he!?) So, from the very beginning, not only did we have the divine decree, but we had a "sheep" and a "goat" for our first parents! (And just as an interesting aside, a goat's head is a satanic symbol, is it not!?)
Again, scripture is self-interpreting to those who are open to seeing or hearing what it plainly says. Not only is scripture self-interpreting but it is internally consistent with itself, which if what we should expect since God cannot lie.
Mr. Shiloh sir, I don't mean to be insulting but your understanding God's Word is as shallow as a small mud puddle. You have burdened God's Word with so much of your personal, presuppositional, prejudicial baggage that all you can do now is try to justify your "free will theological system" with a grand performance of mental gymnastics that would put to shame any legitimate gymnast's physical performance!
But at the same time, how did the "literal words from God" get on paper: Did the Holy Spirit bypass human agency and write those on parchment directly with his finger or did those literal words also come through the medium of God's apostles and prophets?
OY VEY!!!
Now, "world" in Jn 3:16 has numerous meanings. Universe doesn't fit the context since there is no biblical record that the sons of men (for whom Christ died) live anywhere other than on this little planet. Besides, this the term "kosmos" has a more narrow meaning:
kosmos
NT:2889 kosmos (kos'-mos); probably from the base of NT:2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):
KJV - adorning, world.
Notice at the very end in brackets "morally". (Some translators also say spiritually.) And also notice that this term is used in the wide or narrow sense. And this moral/spiritual application makes perfectly good sense because Spiritually or Morally there are only TWO kinds of people in this world. In Jn 3:16, it's used in the narrow sense to denote who God loves -- which cannot be sinners, according to numerous scripture. Therefore, who God loves in this passage are all the "whoevers" of this world who come to believe on his His Son. The "whosoever" qualifies the extent of God's love.
But in Jn 17:9, we have the opposite scenario. Jesus omitted the "world" from his prayer because he prayed only for the two groups of elect he specifically mentioned in the chapter. "World" in this passage, therefore, is used in the negative sense and denotes the world of non-elect unbelievers.
Also, as stated previously, the nation Israel itself sets the precedent for this kind of usage for the term "world", since Paul tell us in Rom 9 that there are two distinct groups of Israelites -- Israel according to the flesh (mere physical lineage) and spiritual Israel according to the Promise.
Jesus tells us in the Good Shepherd discourse that he laid down his life for his sheep, making no mention of the goats in this world; but instead telling us elsewhere that the day would come when he would judge and condemn the goats of this world. He also mentions two flocks of sheep (Israel according to the Promise) and the elect Gentiles who would be brought in to join the Jewish flock, so that the two flocks will become one.
Also, at the Last Supper, Jesus himself limited the extent of his atoning work's application to just "you" or "many". Jesus had only one group in mind, and it was not the entire world in the distributive sense.
In Gal 3:22 Paul tells us that "the whole world" is a prisoner of sin; yet the world this can't be true in the distributive sense since Paul teaches us elsewhere that sin shall not be a master over us. John also taught that no born of God can live a lifestyle of sin. So again, "whole world" is being used to denote the world of unbelievers.
In fact, John tells us in 1Jn 5:19 the "whole world" lies under the power of the evil one; yet this cannot be true since the apostle said earlier that "no one born of God can keep on sinning" (1Jn 3:9). Or did John contradict himself? Or maybe 1 John isn't divinely inspired? Or do we just have another situation here where "whole world" is used in a narrow sense to denote the the ungodly world of unbelievers?
To sum up, all these metaphors and groups can be traced back to their origin in Gen 3:15, wherein God immediately after the Fall SOVEREIGNLY DECREED (without consulting with any human being, or getting any human's permission) that from now on there would be two distinct moral/spiritual groups of people in this world: The godly seed of the Woman and the ungodly seed of the Serpent. There is no third seed. (And the First Adam certainly didn't descend from Eve, did he!?) So, from the very beginning, not only did we have the divine decree, but we had a "sheep" and a "goat" for our first parents! (And just as an interesting aside, a goat's head is a satanic symbol, is it not!?)
Again, scripture is self-interpreting to those who are open to seeing or hearing what it plainly says. Not only is scripture self-interpreting but it is internally consistent with itself, which if what we should expect since God cannot lie.
Mr. Shiloh sir, I don't mean to be insulting but your understanding God's Word is as shallow as a small mud puddle. You have burdened God's Word with so much of your personal, presuppositional, prejudicial baggage that all you can do now is try to justify your "free will theological system" with a grand performance of mental gymnastics that would put to shame any legitimate gymnast's physical performance!
Paul's own purpose does not equal to God's Word.
You posted [to fit the apostle's own particular purposes] but now going to preach at me like I did what YOU DID!
I know all you reformers tricks.
Wonder if the Reformed are aware that one of their great Theologians and Founders promoted WORKS?
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Why can't Paul's purpose also be God's? You're the one who seems to think that the apostles and prophets were merely the wooden, robotic, mindless, passionless, puppets-on-a-string mouthpieces for God. If so, I do not share that viewpoint.
Col 2:2-4
2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
NIV
I guess in your world God didn't inspire Paul to write this either, right? How arrogant and egotistical Paul was to write about his purpose.
Col 2:2-4
2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
NIV
I guess in your world God didn't inspire Paul to write this either, right? How arrogant and egotistical Paul was to write about his purpose.
In my 4969, I gave several biblical examples of the moral/spiritual component to the definition of "kosmos" (world) that is rightly held by many reputable translators. So now in this post, I'd like to provide a few biblical examples to another component to the definition of this Gr. term that has to do with the scope or extent of it when referring to its inhabitants.. Again, nearly all translators recognize that the term can be used in a narrow or broad sense, quantitatively speaking. Let's quickly look at a few passages.
Rom 1:8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world
NIV
Are we supposed to believe that back in the first century A.D. that the faith of the saints in Rome was reported to each and every person all over the world? Or are we even supposed to believe that their faith back in Paul's day was proclaimed to the uttermost parts of this earth, e.g. in North America, South America, Central America, Australia, Antarctica? Or would it be more reasonable to infer that Paul meant by "all over the world" the known world at that time under the Roman Empire, and that he used the phrase in a narrow sense?
Then we have this passage:
Col 1:6
6... that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.
NIV
Here again, we have the same phrase being used "all over the world". And the same questions as above apply. Was the gospel bearing fruit to the four corners of the earth? Or just throughout the known Roman Empire?
And then this passage:
Col 1:23
23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
NIV
Here Paul boldly claims that the gospel has been "proclaimed to every creature under heaven", presumably the entire world and everyone in it? But was the gospel really preached throughout the entire world -- the world that we know it to be today? Was the gospel proclaimed in Paul's day to each and every person under heaven, without exception? It was preached to infants, babies, toddlers, the mentally incompetent, the comatose, etc. to the uttermost parts of the earth as we know it to be today?
It's interesting that those who hold to the heresy of Full Preterism use a text like the one above as a proof text for their eschatological system. All they do is pair it up with this one and voila...they think they have proved the Parousia is an historical fact:
Matt 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
NIV
And to make their position even more secure (so they think), they pair the above passage up with this one:
Matt 24:34
34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
NIV
And there we have it: Instant Heresy! Easy peasy. The Second Coming occurred in 70 A.D (or some hold to a later date). And ever since the Second Coming all the saints have been living in this Postmillennial Age in which we have all been going about the business of evangelizing and converting virtually the entire world and then Christ will return again...for a third time.
This is what can happen when we carelessly, recklessly or irresponsibly handle the Word of God, and fail to "rightly divide the Word of Truth". It will almost always lead to theological error -- and in some cases to very serious error.
A little leaven (sin, corruption, error) can definitely leaven the entire lump (1Cor 5:6).
Rom 1:8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world
NIV
Are we supposed to believe that back in the first century A.D. that the faith of the saints in Rome was reported to each and every person all over the world? Or are we even supposed to believe that their faith back in Paul's day was proclaimed to the uttermost parts of this earth, e.g. in North America, South America, Central America, Australia, Antarctica? Or would it be more reasonable to infer that Paul meant by "all over the world" the known world at that time under the Roman Empire, and that he used the phrase in a narrow sense?
Then we have this passage:
Col 1:6
6... that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.
NIV
Here again, we have the same phrase being used "all over the world". And the same questions as above apply. Was the gospel bearing fruit to the four corners of the earth? Or just throughout the known Roman Empire?
And then this passage:
Col 1:23
23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
NIV
Here Paul boldly claims that the gospel has been "proclaimed to every creature under heaven", presumably the entire world and everyone in it? But was the gospel really preached throughout the entire world -- the world that we know it to be today? Was the gospel proclaimed in Paul's day to each and every person under heaven, without exception? It was preached to infants, babies, toddlers, the mentally incompetent, the comatose, etc. to the uttermost parts of the earth as we know it to be today?
It's interesting that those who hold to the heresy of Full Preterism use a text like the one above as a proof text for their eschatological system. All they do is pair it up with this one and voila...they think they have proved the Parousia is an historical fact:
Matt 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
NIV
And to make their position even more secure (so they think), they pair the above passage up with this one:
Matt 24:34
34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
NIV
And there we have it: Instant Heresy! Easy peasy. The Second Coming occurred in 70 A.D (or some hold to a later date). And ever since the Second Coming all the saints have been living in this Postmillennial Age in which we have all been going about the business of evangelizing and converting virtually the entire world and then Christ will return again...for a third time.
This is what can happen when we carelessly, recklessly or irresponsibly handle the Word of God, and fail to "rightly divide the Word of Truth". It will almost always lead to theological error -- and in some cases to very serious error.
A little leaven (sin, corruption, error) can definitely leaven the entire lump (1Cor 5:6).
Scripture PROOF God intended for ALL men to find Him.
This is why God created ALL humans from ONE man: to find God:
26 God made one man. From that one man he has made all the nations of men to live on the whole earth. He has given to each nation a certain time and a certain place to live.
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.
The Reformed Doctrine tries to hide this verse because it proves man can find God if they try..
This is why God created ALL humans from ONE man: to find God:
26 God made one man. From that one man he has made all the nations of men to live on the whole earth. He has given to each nation a certain time and a certain place to live.
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.
The Reformed Doctrine tries to hide this verse because it proves man can find God if they try..
are you sure? think about it.
before this statement the Lord God makes to Moses, we have the golden calf incident. then God says to Moses, (my paraphrase) leave this place, you and the people YOU brought out of Egypt. God tells him He'll send an angel to drive out the Caananites, etc, but He won't go with them because they're a stiff-necked people and He might destroy them on the way.
Moses, as mediator, pleads with God for the people, calling them GOD'S people. God agrees to do as Moses asked. Moses asks the famous favor, show me Your glory.
God tells Moses He'll make His goodness pass before him, saying I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
God is telling Moses mercy and compassion are His to bestow as He wishes. He has chosen not only to bestow them on Moses, but on the people Moses pleads for. not to all people; not to the Amorites or the Hittites -- they face destruction. but in this instance to the ones Moses intercedes for, to God's people.
it's no different to the usage in Romans.
before this statement the Lord God makes to Moses, we have the golden calf incident. then God says to Moses, (my paraphrase) leave this place, you and the people YOU brought out of Egypt. God tells him He'll send an angel to drive out the Caananites, etc, but He won't go with them because they're a stiff-necked people and He might destroy them on the way.
Moses, as mediator, pleads with God for the people, calling them GOD'S people. God agrees to do as Moses asked. Moses asks the famous favor, show me Your glory.
God tells Moses He'll make His goodness pass before him, saying I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
God is telling Moses mercy and compassion are His to bestow as He wishes. He has chosen not only to bestow them on Moses, but on the people Moses pleads for. not to all people; not to the Amorites or the Hittites -- they face destruction. but in this instance to the ones Moses intercedes for, to God's people.
it's no different to the usage in Romans.
And what of this verse?
Romans 5:15, 18
“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, (Adam) how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!”
And...
“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10
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Cherry-picking again, heh?
Also, why didn't you quote all of verse 27, which reads
Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us?
NIV
God desires for men to seek him but that doesn't mean that any unregenerate sinner will or can desire to seek him!
And you forget that NO ONE seeks God (Rom 3:11). Wanna know why? Because the sinful mind is hostile toward (Rom 8:7), so how would anyone with such a mind want to seek God, want to find him, want to know him? Why do you think Jesus said this:
Luke 19:10
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"?
NIV
Or that he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance?
And have you also forgotten the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What did the Father say about the prodigal to his brother? Do you recall? In fact, the father in the parable said this twice to drive home the point!
Luke 15:24, 32
24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate... 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
NIV
Here's a newsflash for you: The Dead can't seek and find anything. And besides, the father in the story was never lost, it was the son who was lost, remember? (I always love it when some professing Christian tells me that he "found God". My retort usually is, "Where did you lose him?")
And then you have forgotten this also:
Isa 65:1
65:1
"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
NIV
The play on words, notwithstanding, do you know who that "nation" is to whom God revealed himself? If you said that it is the same "nation" to whom Jesus gave the Kingdom when he took it away from Israel, you'd be right on the mark. The nation is the Church.
Do you have anymore pearls of wisdom for us this cloudy, gray morning?
Also, why didn't you quote all of verse 27, which reads
Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us?
NIV
God desires for men to seek him but that doesn't mean that any unregenerate sinner will or can desire to seek him!
And you forget that NO ONE seeks God (Rom 3:11). Wanna know why? Because the sinful mind is hostile toward (Rom 8:7), so how would anyone with such a mind want to seek God, want to find him, want to know him? Why do you think Jesus said this:
Luke 19:10
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"?
NIV
Or that he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance?
And have you also forgotten the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What did the Father say about the prodigal to his brother? Do you recall? In fact, the father in the parable said this twice to drive home the point!
Luke 15:24, 32
24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate... 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
NIV
Here's a newsflash for you: The Dead can't seek and find anything. And besides, the father in the story was never lost, it was the son who was lost, remember? (I always love it when some professing Christian tells me that he "found God". My retort usually is, "Where did you lose him?")
And then you have forgotten this also:
Isa 65:1
65:1
"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
NIV
The play on words, notwithstanding, do you know who that "nation" is to whom God revealed himself? If you said that it is the same "nation" to whom Jesus gave the Kingdom when he took it away from Israel, you'd be right on the mark. The nation is the Church.
Do you have anymore pearls of wisdom for us this cloudy, gray morning?
God in Son Jesus as Jesus in God for us all went to that cross for us all
God decides who are in and who are not in. By those that are sincere to be new, not as those that got Jesus killed in order to get rid of him, doing good for the people then. Yet did not get rid of him. He is risen forever in Spirit and Truth, at least this I see as he made an open spectacle of those that wanted him dead, revealed to me in Col 2, yet great to read Chapter one first, thanks, all are called, all are given the choice to believe God in what by Son is done for them to live new in God's Spirit and Truth or not
Have a great day
God decides who are in and who are not in. By those that are sincere to be new, not as those that got Jesus killed in order to get rid of him, doing good for the people then. Yet did not get rid of him. He is risen forever in Spirit and Truth, at least this I see as he made an open spectacle of those that wanted him dead, revealed to me in Col 2, yet great to read Chapter one first, thanks, all are called, all are given the choice to believe God in what by Son is done for them to live new in God's Spirit and Truth or not
Have a great day