Are you pre-Trib, mid-Trib, or post-Trib?

Just one more thing. I thought Mt. Zion was in heaven.

Hey LoriSaysHey, May I ask, who were you addressing by this: "Dear EndTime"?

Consider this (a passage I referred to in a recent post):



Isa 24:21
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. [2nd Coming to the earth / Armageddon - Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5]

Isa 24:22
And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/punished. [GWTj - Rev20:11-15]

Isa 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.




[I believe "mount Zion" is on the earth; Verse 23 is speaking of the earthly MK age]

Heaven doesn't have mountains because those are made up of dirt and rocks etc. Mt Zion is near Jerusalem.

I believe I was responding to someone with a long name that started with EndTime, so I just shortened it.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction about the 144,000 in Rev 14:1 being on earth, not in heaven. I thought Mt. Zion was in heaven, but now that I see they're really on earth in Jerusalem with Jesus, Rev 14 makes more sense to me. Also like this explanation I found:
John saw the Lamb—Jesus—standing on Mount Zion. The event pictures Jesus as having returned to Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation. He is ready to inaugurate His kingdom on earth. With Him on Mount Zion are the 144,000 sealed Jewish believers who have survived the tribulation. They have triumphed over all its turmoil and persecution.

Exactly. Thank you very much.

I have considered the other two positions carefully and found they don't make Biblical sense. Only Amill theology ticks all the boxes, there are to many things which don't add up with the other two views.

This is a very deep theological subject, there's a lot to consider and I don't think it's possible to have an exhaustive Bible study to cover all the relevant scriptures here. Eschatology has more twist and turns than a Hitchcock thriller.

Amilennialists reject the view that Jesus Christ will physically reign on the Earth for exactly one thousand years. Rather, we interpret the "thousand years" mentioned in Revelation 20 as a symbolic number, not as a literal duration of time.
Amillennialists hold that the millennium has already begun and is simultaneous with the current church age. Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent reign in the "new heaven and new Earth.

I have listened to a few debates about eschatology by highly qualified theologians, from all three sides. Most in the audience were left baffled, as each speaker put their case forward in a very convincing way. So much so that all three seemed to be Biblically correct while they opposed each other.

It took me a few years to finally settle on a position, so it wasn't one of those simple doctrines that we can settle on a view in one study.

Please allow me to paraphrase you. "According to my interpretation, Rev. 20:4 is speaking about a future event" I respectfully disagree and hold to the interpretation that event has already taken place.

To me Satan is a harmless dog on a chain, He has absolutely no power to bother me in the slightest way. The Church is raining victorious and we will take full control of he whole world and nothing can stop us, because God gave it to us. We already have eternal life, and victory over Satan and His army.

I've never seen any evidence that Satan or any of His Demons have ever come into the world to bother us. They were bound in chains 2000 thousand years ago. So your wrong about Satan being on the earth tormenting mankind. I've never heard of a single Christian being bothered by a dog on Gods chain. Satan needs to ask God for permission, before He can lift a finger. Let alone bother anyone.

The bible says we will receive incorruptible immortal bodies, and our corrupt old minds will also be renewed and perfected. So we will see things the way God sees them, and we will praise Him for casting our relatives into hell. We won't remember them the way we do now, we will remember them the way God remembers them.

I know it's hard for us to accept the fact that we won't mourn for our relatives in hell, but God did promise to renew our minds.
When God gives us that new mind we won't see our earthly relatives the same way we do now. God might even cause us to forget we ever knew them, so we won't mourn for someone we never knew.

Yes, that’s pretty much how I view it. The KJV says end of the world, and I pretty much only read KJV. Not that I think all other versions are wrong or errored, I just prefer the traditional KJV.

Didnt you bother reading any of those scriptures ?

You need to look at what they asked him first

“And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?( jesus had just told them Jerusalem would be destroyed )


and ( 2nd question) what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus is addressing both questions when would Jerusalem be destroyed according to the abomination of desolation that Daniel explained which I quoted before

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ( Jesus would be rejected and killed for the peoples sins ) but not for himself:

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ( that’s what Jesus began telling them rome would destroy Jerusalem and it’s temple )

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the great tribulation is about that abomination of desolation whicch Daniel wrote of there spoken about Jerusalem not the world

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:15-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I would ask you to name a time that is worse for believers in comparison to what happened to Jerusalem and the early church under emperor Titus and Nero . They were beheaded , burned alive , skinned , boiled , wrapped I. Animal skins and thrown to wild starving beasts in Roman arenas they were wrapped in oil soaked linens crucified and set ablaze as lampposts for Nero’s garden games

it was because they wouldn’t deny Jesus and what he told then came to pass

“Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:9‬ ‭

everyone in the Roman Empire which was the ancient world really hates Christian’s and Jews they blamed them for burning time down and sponsored state persecution of Christians for a few hundred years after

It’s not going to ever be like that again the early church went through everything he told them they would.

When Jesus returns it’s not going to be like that it’s going to be a corrupt and wicked world going on as usual

“And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. ( no great tribulation just corruption and usual business )

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:26-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It says there will be terrible times in the end but it’s people’s behavior that’s being addressed not world chaos

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That really just describes our world today how people are the great tribulation is entrenched in scriptire brother it’s consistent throughout the Bible Jerusalem would be destroyed and Gods wrath would be fuflilled upon then unlike it would be on any nation again

This happened from 67-70 ad and led to the Jewish dispersion into the nations of the world

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the persecution and torture and torment they endured won’t ever be experienced again on earth there’s never goi g to be a other time like just after Jesus ascended to heaven and what happened to Jerusalem and the early church

but it’s ok if you don’t agree with me either way it’s just my own belief according to what I’ve learned from the Bible’s text and prayer

a lot of people think the same you do . Others think a great tribulation lasting seven years will happen just after the church is “ raptured “ giving everyone seven years to repent ect ect

I personally don’t believe that because I’ve never read any scripture saying any of it but there’s a lot of scripture in the Bible and maybe I just don’t understand any of it who knows …God does I know that lol

but honestly we may just end up disagreeing about this one which is fine with me and hopefully also with you . God bless though either way

As I ponder these things, I've come to this speculation:
When the burning mountain falls sometime after the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, it will not land in Russia as the are taken out after attacking Israel, and so to for North Africa. Nor will it strike in Europe and China as the will meet each other in the battle of Armagedón. That leaves North and South America for the impact area of effect. I suspect that this will be an act of mercy on the Lord's part as a culling of some of the faithful who've remained perpetual babes before they can depart from the faith as per 1 Tim 4: 1.

As I see it, the body of Christ is composed of those who were harvested.

Even so, Lord Jesus come quickly!

: )

Yes, and the events of 70 AD are not the great tribulation as preterists will learn when they have to go thru it.

Many who take the preterist position will also take the mark of the beast since they believe the lie that the great tribulation has already happens and they'll spend eternity in hell for that as Jesus tells us will happen to those that take the mark.

It's going to really suck to be preterist

Oh wow! You sure have lived different than most, especially me. I have myself, along with many, many other Believers, personally seen Satan in action against us, along with his fallen angels, and demons. Satan continues to kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10) and as we draw closer to the end times, he has beefed it up because he knows he doesn't have much time left to do his dirty work. If what you're saying is true, then why did Paul warn us in Ephesians 6:10 and 11 that our enemy is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. That we must put on the full armor of God so that we can stand firmly against the schemes of the devil? I've also seen many victories over Satan, myself included, after I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. PTL!!!

Also, Peter warns us in 1 Peter 5:8, "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

So I respectfully disagree sir with your view on the Millenium. I could go on and on with this topic and provide tons of Scriptures to the contrary that we are definately not living in the Millenium as yet.

Oh wow Charlie! You sure have lived different than most, especially me. I have myself, along with many, many other Believers, personally seen Satan in action against us, along with his fallen angels, and demons. Satan continues to kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10) and as we draw closer to the end times, he has beefed it up because he knows he doesn't have much time left to do his dirty work. If what you're saying is true, then why did Paul warn us in Ephesians 6:10 and 11 that our enemy is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. That we must put on the full armor of God so that we can stand firmly against the schemes of the devil? I've also seen many victories over Satan, myself included, after I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. PTL!!!

Also, Peter warns us in 1 Peter 5:8, "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

So I respectfully disagree sir with your view on the Millenium. I could go on and on with this topic and provide tons of Scriptures to the contrary that we are definately not living in the Millenium as yet.

Thanks Charlie. Your view on this subject makes perfect sense to me.

I am just trying to understand the various beliefs and how the sausage is made. I see this date pop up and so since it is a 3 year period. My question is, is the 3 years stated roughly 3 years but when we figure in months more like 3 and a half. I guess what I am curious about is the time period from 67-70 AD, do you believe it is a fulfilment of the 3 and a half years mentioned in scripture concerning the great tribulation?

Precious friend, thanks for the great question - to clarify the meaning of:

The newly 'coined' "past-trib" was meant to say: after our glorification
{ at The Mystery pre-trib "Gathering By Christ [ The Head ] Unto
Himself, in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1 AV) },
all our [ The Heavenly Body Of Christ ] tribulations would then be:


And then, differently:

post-trib rapture into "the air" for them [ Israel ], seems to me to be
impossible, because, borrowing from God's Great GRACE Departure!:

[ After Israel's 'Great Tribulation' ( Time of Jacob's Trouble! ) ]:

At "Christ's Second 'Prophesied' Coming", and then "setting up His
[ earthly ] "Kingdom Throne", we find, according to the Scriptures:

...(5) With Another trumpet (After "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are Sent, By The KING, To: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27 AV)
+
(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46 AV)...

Amen.

And, again, I really appreciate such kind and humble discussion...

Sorry to insert myself here, but let me add how John warns us in 1 John 4: 1(+) to try the spirits, for not every spirit is from the Lord and those who listen to their lies and deception become false prophets, sadly. And in another place; we're told that the evil one, who can appear as an angel of light has servants, who are false teachers and will appear as ministers of righteousness.

I'm sure you could quote tons of scriptures and use them as evidence, to support your view of the millennium. The problem remains that I don't accept your interpretation as being correct in the first place. So there's no point in citing scriptures to support a view which i have already studied thoroughly and found it to be false.

I'm glad you support the Amill view that everything you said about Satan causing trouble, wars and other problems is all metaphoric language. Because you confirm that Paul was talking about a spiritual battle and the amour is not physical but spiritual. So by admitting that, you agree that Christ is currently reining upon the earth and the Church is unstoppable and victorious and Satan is powerless.

Mankind is totally depraved and wicked, he doesn't need any help from Satan to do his evil works.

At the end of the day, the Church does tolerate those who hold to the false interpretations of the millennium. We can still have fellowship with those who hold to the false interpretations. God won't punish anyone for lacking understanding and discernment of the scriptures which pertain to the rein of Christ during the millennian