Are you pre-Trib, mid-Trib, or post-Trib?

[TheDivineWatermark]

[...] Never said anything like that.

I'm saying that the wedding will not happen until AFTER the great tribulation, not anytime before that. Not until the full number of the church has been brought in.

Right, but didn't you ALSO say that's when "the wedding feast / supper of the Lamb" also takes place??

It seems you said BOTH take place AFTER the Trib.




[I'm explaining why the text itself does not reflect such a notion. Nor do the "illustrations" in the various related texts]

The Bible warned that a lot of us will be killed because of the antichrist.

Revelation 13:7
It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people [that's us!] and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Revelation 13:7 corresponds with what is stated back in Daniel 7:21 (20-25,27--the Trib yrs), which v.21 says,

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed [G2480 ischyo - LXX] against them [...]"





... which is directly what Jesus was specifically speaking about when He'd said:


"...and upon this rock I will [future tense] build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against [G2729--from kata G2596 and ischyo G2480] it. "

[but your view is saying that it WILL (prevail against it)! contrary to what Jesus Himself had to say about that. I'm going with what Jesus Himself said. ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" = all those saved "in this present age [singular]"





(Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]--not all other saints of all OTHER time periods: Not OT saints, Not Trib saints, Not MK saints)

 

[Charlie_2024]

We''re NOT in the millennial age. The millennial age is AFTER this coming great tribulation when the Lord Jesus returns for us. In the millennial age, the Lord Jesus LITERALLY, PHYSICALLY rules the world. Everyone will see Him with their own eyes, not just spiritually by the Holy Spirit He will actually rule from Jerusalem in the Millennial age. Also His people will rule the nations with Him in the millennial age - right now NONE of us are as an indication that we are not in the millennial age.

Satan has not been bound up and is doing everything right now to deceive people away from the Lord. That's why things have gotten so markedly worse because Satan knows his time is short.

You're deceived. No wonder you don't think God will include children among His people. Thanks for letting everyone know! Not listening to you anymore.


🍰

It all comes down to which interpretation of eschatology, you choose to believe. All three can be biblically supported as equally valid, by a skilled Bible scholar.
I believe the Amillennial interpretation is the only correct one and the other wo a false interpretations.

I believe Jesus is ruling the world, because Christians cannot be deceived or harmed by Satan at all. We rule the world and Satan can only deceive those outside of the Church, because God has given them over to Satan.

Your interpretation of Jesus ruling the world and mine are diametrically opposed. My Bible tells me that Gods kingdom is a spiritual one and yours is an earthly one like King Charles's kingdom.

Things have never been better, Satan and His Demons are bound and the Church is flourishing. God is blessing us like never before, with more new converts everyday. If Satan was ruling, the first thing He would do is kill all the Christians, but as you can see we are in full control and winning the battle.

Your free to hold to your own view, and I will continue take God at His Word.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Hi Charlie_2024,

I think you've misunderstood selahsays's point, here.

She is PRE-Mill (not POST-Mill)...



... so she is presenting her "PRE-Mill [and post-Trib]" viewpoint.







By the way, welcome to CC... I see you're fairly new here also.

Hope to see you around the boards.

Thank you for kindly correcting me, and not treating me like an infidel for holding a different view.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I believe the Amillennial interpretation is the only correct one and the other wo a false interpretations.

Hi Charlie_2024,

Consider (what I've put in past posts... condensed version here ):

--Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-slot/2nd Coming to the earth) CORRESPONDS with Isaiah 24:21-22[,23]'s FIRST of TWO (distinct) "PUNISH" words (v.21a is the FIRST mention of "PUNISH" in these verses);


--whereas the SECOND mention of "PUNISH" in that Isaiah passage (used in v.22b) CORRESPONDS with the LATER point in the chronology, that of Rev20:11-15, the (chronologically-LATER) "GWTj" context (FOLLOWING the 1000-year period);


--AS IN Revelation 19 and 20, this Isaiah 24:21-22 passage ALSO shows these TWO (distinct) "PUNISH" words SEPARATED BY "TIME" (a period of TIME intervening)--see v.22's wording: "and AFTER MANY DAYS [shall they be PUNISHED (2nd use of this word in this text)]";


--this is why Isaiah 24-27 is often called "the little apocalypse" (because of these and other correlations--correlations which the "Amill-teachings" disregard)









The "Amill-teachings" can not account for this, as (in their view) there is NO "TIME" FOLLOWING Armageddon / Christ's Second Coming to the earth time-slot. The "Amill-teachings" do not give careful attention to a great many "time elements" provided in scripture (this is just one example).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Thank you for kindly correcting me, and not treating me like an infidel for holding a different view.

Perfectly fine.


I only ask that you CONSIDER the other viewpoint carefully (hence, "a discussion board"), and weigh its points (as there are often many more "points" to the Subject than one may have been informed about, when studying out this matter)

 

[LoriSaysHey]

I'm also post trib. How can the wedding supper take place when some of God's people, His church who is the bride, are still on earth suffering ("tribulation saints" as pre and mid trib like to designate them) if the rapture is pre or mid trib? No, the wedding feast won't happen until ALL of the Lord's people are collected so that ALL of us can enjoy the feast.

The wedding feast is mentioned in Revelation 19, and it sounds like it happens at the end of the great tribulation after we're raptured but before Jesus destroys the antichrist and the rest of our enemies.

Outline of Revelation 19:
Verses 1-5: God's judgement on the great prostitute who corrupted the earth.
Verses 6-10: Marriage supper of the Lamb.
Verses 11-21: Jesus as the Rider on the White Horse throws the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and slays the rest of His enemies.


🪀

Understand why you're post-Trib if your view is that people will continue to get saved all the way to the end of the Tribulation Period. However, I don't see any verses to support that view.

You're assuming that "weddings & feasts-of-weddings" happened in that day (back when this was written) THE SAME WAY that today's weddings and wedding receptions (w/dinners) happen, that is, ALL ON THE SAME DAY (even before the couple consummates their union--that's how TODAY'S weddings go).


That is NOT how they did so back in that era.






The wedding FEAST / SUPPER *IS* after the GT / Trib yrs, and not before (I never said "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" precedes the Trib yrs; No, because the "INVITING" TO IT is what takes places ALL THROUGHOUT THE TRIBULATION PERIOD ["those [plural] HAVING BEEN INVITED [PERFECT participle]..."--THAT PART is completed (on the earth) by the time He's getting ready to "RETURN" to the earth Rev19--The wedding feast / supper itself will not have been completed / have taken place yet, at that point in the chronology--the wording DOES NOT REFLECT such an idea--Rather, it's where He'll be HEADING BACK DOWN *TO*--WITH His Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]! [US!/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" ONLY])




The "MARRIAGE" is not "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"

My understanding from Rev 19 is that after God's wrath ends in Chap 18, John says in 19:1-2 "After these things (end of God's wrath in Chapter 18), I heard as it were, a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying 'Hallehlujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; beause His judgments are true and righteous; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and He has avenged the blood of His bond-servants on her." Then in verse 7 the marriage super of the Lamb is described prior to the 2nd coming of Christ beginning in verse staring in verse 11. So, it appears that the order is 1) Marriage Supper of the Lamb in heaven, then 2) the 2nd coming of Christ. Not sure why you believe that the marriage super of the Lamb will be on earth.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Hi LoriSaysHey,

I know your post was addressed to Blade. I was just hoping to insert something about the part I bolded ^ .

Consider:

--"but of that day and hour knoweth no man" (and related verses), Jesus is talking about His Second Coming to the earth (per context), so v.36 (Mt24, for example) is referring back to the "IT is near, even at the doors" of v.33 and [same point] His Second Coming to the earth of vv.29-31 [corresponding with Isa27:9,12-13; i.e. not about "our Rapture"];


--"knoweth" is in the "PERFECT tense" (perfect indicative), meaning, no one (not even Jesus) "knew," (up-to and) at the time this was spoken... But it is not conveying something along the lines that no one CAN or WILL ever "know"; I believe Jesus "knew" perfectly after His resurrection / ascension / exaltation; and then...


--some 60+ years after His ascension / exaltation, He then LATER disclosed "further information" on THAT Subject (including numerous "timing" details supplied throughout the book of Revelation [esp. chpts 4-19]--some more readily apparent than others), that will provide that very information to those who will find themselves IN the Tribulation period (IF they will but heed His word--and we know that while a great many WILL heed His word, many others will not [just as in the days of Noah]... It will, of course, be a time of great "deception".)





Good point! Thanks. I agree.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Remember the fact that Satan is currently bound, so He can't harm Christians. We are currently enjoying the millennium, where Satan is bound and can't do anything to stop the gospel from going out and saving millions of souls.
The Holy Spirit is currently preventing Satan from destroying the world. But when the Holy Spirit releases Satan and opens the pit, all the Demons will come out and torment and kill those who don't have the seal of God on their foreheads.
So it's quite evident that we are living in the prophesized millennium, or as some call it Amillennian period

Haven't met anyone who has this view that we are now living in the Millennium. Please provide supporting Scripture for your view on this. Rev 20:4 describes the Millenium as beginning after Satan (the dragon) is thrown into abyss by an angel from heaven indicating that he will be bound there for 1000 years (Rev 20:1-3). Then continuing with verse 4, the saints reign on earth for 1000 years with Jesus. It is evident that Satan is not restrained as he is still on earth tormenting mankind in many ways.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

You're misunderstanding what I put.




The point I originally made wasn't suggesting that there are not "male and female believers" in EACH ILLUSTRATION / PICTURE...


... just that the "picture" of "10 [or even just 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" is NOT given to illustrate the "MARRIAGE" / who He (the ONE Bridegroom) is "MARRYING" (but is rather a picture / illustration of "the marriage FEAST / SUPPER" i.e. the earthly MK age);


... and that THAT ILLUSTRATION / PICTURE ^ given in scripture is very DISTINCT FROM "the Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" who He IS "MARRYING"




... and also that they "THEY / THOSE [PLURAL] HAVING BEEN INVITED [PERFECT participle] to the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/MK age] of the Lamb"(Rev19:9--which He is heading DOWN TO, at that point in the chronology)
are LIKEWISE DISTINCT FROM "the Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" (Rev19:7) to/for/about whom "the MARRIAGE" itself SOLELY pertains (which "marriage," at that point in the chronology, HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE, UP THERE *WITH* HIM)







[I was saying, your argument is not coherent, given what I've put regarding these... ]

Dear EndTime...
I enjoy reading your view; however, I can't believe you called her view "stupid". Are you unable to maintain respect for others opinions that are different from yours? How offensive. Christians shouldn't behave this way. Please try to control yourself and be nice.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Have you considered that we/the Church which is His body are not a part of the "WHEAT" harvest?

(i.e. that there is "more than one" HARVEST [note: not more than one RAPTURE]--and thus "more than one" FIRSTFRUIT--both in Scripture and in nature)







[I've made a number of posts in the past on that subject]




P.S. the "harvest" in Matt13 says, "the end [singular] of the AGE [singular]"... not the end of the "world" But, yeah, that corresponds with His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom "age" ("the age [singular] to come" Mt12:32)

Good point

Hello! I was raised pre trib, but in the last few years I have come to believe post trib or pre wrath, still working out those details. I have ideas, but it would all be found in the book of 1st opinions...

The main passage that has changed my view is in Matthew, the parable of the wheat and the tares, where it is stated that the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of the harvest, and the tares are gathered first, then the wheat.

Its been very interesting reading, looking through all the posts on this thread.

Have a blessed day!
TG

Hey ThatGuy! Here's a question for ya. If the 144,000 described in Rev 7 are sealed to protect them from God's wrath for 3-1/2 years, how did they end up in heaven in Rev 14 singing a new song before the thrown in heaven? Did they have their own separate rapture? Anyone else out there have an answer? Please chime in.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Amen!

As Soon As The Body Of Christ Departs in pre- [TOJT] trib Great GRACE Departure,
then all our infirmities, persecutions, distresses, trials, troubles, and tribulations
Will All Be "past-trib" ♫ 😇 ↑

How is past-Trib different from post-Trib?

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Hi LoriSaysHey,

I know your post was addressed to Blade. I was just hoping to insert something about the part I bolded ^ .

Consider:

--"but of that day and hour knoweth no man" (and related verses), Jesus is talking about His Second Coming to the earth (per context), so v.36 (Mt24, for example) is referring back to the "IT is near, even at the doors" of v.33 and [same point] His Second Coming to the earth of vv.29-31 [corresponding with Isa27:9,12-13; i.e. not about "our Rapture"];


--"knoweth" is in the "PERFECT tense" (perfect indicative), meaning, no one (not even Jesus) "knew," (up-to and) at the time this was spoken... But it is not conveying something along the lines that no one CAN or WILL ever "know"; I believe Jesus "knew" perfectly after His resurrection / ascension / exaltation; and then...


--some 60+ years after His ascension / exaltation, He then LATER disclosed "further information" on THAT Subject (including numerous "timing" details supplied throughout the book of Revelation [esp. chpts 4-19]--some more readily apparent than others), that will provide that very information to those who will find themselves IN the Tribulation period (IF they will but heed His word--and we know that while a great many WILL heed His word, many others will not [just as in the days of Noah]... It will, of course, be a time of great "deception".)






Thank you for bringing up a great topic of discussion.

Hey Devine, What's your view on the Millenium? Do you view the Millenial period taking place after the 2nd coming and before the new heaven and earth? The world was pretty messed up by God's Wrath - every island and mountain was moved out of their places, a third of the earth was burned up (Rev 8:7), a third of the sea became blood (Rev 8:8), a third of the waters on earth became bitter (Rev 8:11), and on and on.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

I agree that God’s people will be spared from his wrath, even if it’s happening all around them. Maybe in a supernatural way? I don’t know. But as far as timing, Jesus defined the terms of the parable later in Matthew 13:39 saying the Harvest is the end of the world. That’s the reason I believe it to be toward the end of the tribulation period.

Blessings Brother!
TG

Is it possible that in Matthew 13:39 when Jesus said, "the harvest is the end of the age". Could the "end of the age" mean the end of this age as we know it, ending with God's wrath and the 7-year tribulation period? Because right after God's wrath ends in Rev 18, in Rev 19, it appears that a new age begins with the marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev 19: then the 2nd Coming of Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Good point

Hey ThatGuy! Here's a question for ya. If the 144,000 described in Rev 7 are sealed to protect them from God's wrath for 3-1/2 years, how did they end up in heaven in Rev 14 singing a new song before the thrown in heaven?

They are learning the song not singing it according to Rev 14.

It is the harpers that play harps and sing the song.

Rev 14:2-3 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

What are your thoughts on Rev 21:4, "and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there no longer shall be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." When I get to heaven and I don't see my loved ones there, I must assume that they are in torment in hell forever. Won't I being crying and in mourning?

 

[LoriSaysHey]

They are learning the song not singing it according to Rev 14.

It is the harpers that play harps and sing the song.

Rev 14:2-3 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Very good explanation! Thank you. I see it now. Blessings!

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Very good explanation! Thank you. I see it now. Blessings!

 

[ewq1938]

What are your thoughts on Rev 21:4, "and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there no longer shall be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." When I get to heaven and I don't see my loved ones there, I must assume that they are in torment in hell forever. Won't I being crying and in mourning?

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

No sorrow means nothing will cause anyone to be upset or sad including anything related to this age etc.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Agree with all this of course, but I'm a realist. If I don't see my beloved parents in heaven, I can only assume that they are suffering in hell. So how can that understand not give me sorrow? It could be possible that the Lord wipes away all knowlege and memories of those we loved in this lifetime so that we wouldn't have a reason to be sad. Sometimes I think I'm so outside the box that I forget I'm in a box.