Are you pre-Trib, mid-Trib, or post-Trib?
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Well Charlie, I guess all I can say is that you certainly have your right to a different view; however, I won't say that it is false. All three views (pre-Trib, mid-Trib, and post-Trib) can be supported with Scripture. Here's the way I see it. If we get raptured before the Tribulation, that would be great. If we don't get raptured until mid-Trib, I'll be grateful that I don't have to go through God's Wrath. But, if we must go through God's Wrath, I have faith and trust in Him that He will be there with me through it until I finally meet Him face to face. Blessings my friend.
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I'm glad to hear all of that, I may not agree with your position regarding the millennium but that's not a deal breaking doctrine. We can have our various views on this subject and still be equally valid members of the Church.
The main thing is that you're a born again believer and follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. God doesn't require everyone to be highly educated theologians, to join His church
The main thing is that you're a born again believer and follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. God doesn't require everyone to be highly educated theologians, to join His church
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Agreed! Most of us who have studied the word of God in depth will differ from one another somewhere. I like to think of the truth as a huge puzzle made up of tiny little pieces that often require many of them to be put in place before we can see what the picture is even going to be about. The Spirit gives each of us different pieces of the puzzle according to our need and his choice. These debates here will often inspire us to search the scripture to better make our varus points, which frequently hones our own opinions and aids us to better understand what we ourselves actually believe. Every topic requires agreement of all scripture to be the truth. Human nature being what it is, we all have a tendency to filter out scripture that doesn't align itself according to our personal doctrines and our differing world views. Even so, enlightenment and illumination of scripture comes from the Holy Spirit according to the Lord's timing and his criteria; here a little, and there a little. This gives those of us who love the scripture a reason discussion and debate our differing understandings of the Lord's holy scripture. The closer we are to the truth the easier it is to grow spiritually, but even so, if I understand all truths and doctrines and have not agape love, it profits me nothing!
To whom shall he teach knowledge, and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, for precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. Is 28: 9, 10 KJV.
For when you ought to teachers, you have need that one teach again the elementary principals of the oracles of God and are become such as have need of milk rather than strong meat. For anyone who is unskillful in the word of righteousness is a babe and needs milk, whereas strong meat belongs to those who are full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to decern both good and evil. Heb 5 KJV.
To whom shall he teach knowledge, and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, for precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. Is 28: 9, 10 KJV.
For when you ought to teachers, you have need that one teach again the elementary principals of the oracles of God and are become such as have need of milk rather than strong meat. For anyone who is unskillful in the word of righteousness is a babe and needs milk, whereas strong meat belongs to those who are full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to decern both good and evil. Heb 5 KJV.
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Excellent point gif! My views on various topics have changed over time as I study God's Word in depth. Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Myself I am pretrib. As to the why, perhaps I am a finger rather than a thumb. Of the different various bible topics I find this one our end times views, that really points out the differences in the body part that one may be in the body of Christ.
It takes a lot of different views or understandings to combine to come up with a reasonably logical end time belief system. So ultimately I am of the view that most individuals are having a honest conversation on this topic. So they read the scriptures as they read them.
However, we do read them differently. So I believe more or less it is like those pictures that contain two different shapes in it and depending on how someone is wired they will predominantly see one picture naturally and have to refocus or look at it in a different light to see the other.
I think it is by design and goes along the lines of us being different body parts as we have a different perspective and skill set. So I am honestly and truly of the belief that we will know before Christ returns, by know I mean the correct scriptural understanding. However, I think as it presently is we are more focused on pointing out how everyone needs to be a hand like ourselves rather than trying to figure out how to integrate the other body parts and clearly see what is before us.
So anyway I am pretrib and honestly I find I am so because of the way that I analyze data. However, I am always most curious to hear others views on this subject and just listen because I want to see how they did the math to arrive at their answer.
It takes a lot of different views or understandings to combine to come up with a reasonably logical end time belief system. So ultimately I am of the view that most individuals are having a honest conversation on this topic. So they read the scriptures as they read them.
However, we do read them differently. So I believe more or less it is like those pictures that contain two different shapes in it and depending on how someone is wired they will predominantly see one picture naturally and have to refocus or look at it in a different light to see the other.
I think it is by design and goes along the lines of us being different body parts as we have a different perspective and skill set. So I am honestly and truly of the belief that we will know before Christ returns, by know I mean the correct scriptural understanding. However, I think as it presently is we are more focused on pointing out how everyone needs to be a hand like ourselves rather than trying to figure out how to integrate the other body parts and clearly see what is before us.
So anyway I am pretrib and honestly I find I am so because of the way that I analyze data. However, I am always most curious to hear others views on this subject and just listen because I want to see how they did the math to arrive at their answer.
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Here's a question for all those pre-Tribbers out there. If God's plan has always been to take us (Believers) out of here before the tribulation begins, then why did He go to all the trouble to let John see and write down all the gorey details in chronological order of what was was going to happpen in the End Times? After all Jesus said in Rev 1:3, "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." Thus, the primary audience for the Book of Revelation are His Believers.
I am not sure I am understanding the question. Isn't the whole bible written for believers every book? Revelation contains imagery that was already introduced in the Old Testament. Isn't the New Testament a connecting of the dots in the Old Testament to give us a clearer picture and understanding? Doesn't Revelation serve the same purpose to give better understanding what was already written prior? So I am not sure I am understanding the question.
Of course, I completely agree that the primary audience of God's Word, including the Book of Rev, is for Believers. However, my question is to those believers who chose to view the rapture as pre-Trib. If God had John write this down specfically for Believers, a blow by blow account of what was going to happen on earth before He returns, why would we care if we're not going to be here for it?
As a pre-Wrather, I believe that it was written down for us (especially those Believers in the last days), so that we could "know the signs" that lead up to HIs coming and be prepared (as described in the parable of the 10 virgins). I also believe that by knowing what horrible things are to come, we will care enough about those we love to warn them and lead them to Christ before it is too late.
As a pre-Wrather, I believe that it was written down for us (especially those Believers in the last days), so that we could "know the signs" that lead up to HIs coming and be prepared (as described in the parable of the 10 virgins). I also believe that by knowing what horrible things are to come, we will care enough about those we love to warn them and lead them to Christ before it is too late.
Ok I got ya and understand why you quoted Rev 1:3. I think it applicable in the heed in the broad sense of the whole book and a understanding of Gods plan from start to finish. However, more so in the narrow sense as it applies directly to the church. I think what they need to heed and do and apply becomes evident when we read about all 7 churches and what ails them and what God approves of.
Like Laodicea for example when we read Colossians. We find that Paul had written them a personal letter. Which to my knowledge we still do not have today. However, we also read that Paul in Colossians says for the Laodiceans to read the letter to the Colossians and the Colossians read the letter to them.
When we read Colossians and what Paul says via the Holy Spirit. Then go and read the message to the Laodiceans we see some of the same themes Paul addressed to them in their reading of Colossians. Christ also did in his message to them.
So heed needed to be given specifically how it affected the churches and in the broader sense us as well as to how we walk and what God finds approvable and not so much.
Like Laodicea for example when we read Colossians. We find that Paul had written them a personal letter. Which to my knowledge we still do not have today. However, we also read that Paul in Colossians says for the Laodiceans to read the letter to the Colossians and the Colossians read the letter to them.
When we read Colossians and what Paul says via the Holy Spirit. Then go and read the message to the Laodiceans we see some of the same themes Paul addressed to them in their reading of Colossians. Christ also did in his message to them.
So heed needed to be given specifically how it affected the churches and in the broader sense us as well as to how we walk and what God finds approvable and not so much.
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I have noticed similar teachings about the antichrist.
Doctrines like Pre-trib teach the church will be gone, so they don't worry about the antichrist or look for any of the signs of his arrival.
Various forms of Preterism including Amillennialism teach the antichrist already came in the past so there is no need to watch for him now.
Other doctrines teach that the AC isn't ever a singular man, or that denominations like the RCC and it's Papacy are the antichrist which is a mis-identification of the last and final antichrist and antichrist type system.
These all share the similarity of teaching that there is no need to watch for the antichrist at all. Seems like a great thing for satan to introduce into the churches so his antichrist (whoever he is) can slip right in and deceive those not watching. The antichrist is also known as a false christ and that is the most dangerous thing not to be knowledgeable about in the endtimes because of the apostasia (the Apostasy).
So, not watching for the antichrist or not believing in a singular future AC or thinking something/someone else is the antichrist can result in one being deceived and committing Apostasy.
All false doctrines teach some version of doctrine where it's adherents need not worry about or watch for the not-yet-here antichrist. That is extremely dangerous. Beware!