Predestination is misunderstood...

He said to another man, “Follow me.”

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59-60

Ok, so would you rather we use the term "figuratively" dead?

PaulThomson said:
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."

Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.

He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.



No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.

Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.

I don't see the term "spiritually dead" anywhere in that text.

Where does scripture say we are born spiritually dead?

I don't see the term "spiritually dead" anywhere in that text.

Where does scripture say we are born spiritually dead?

Except that you, yourself, reworded 'dead in sin' in your own words... so, why the double standard?

No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say,

God cannot be called Omniscient if there's one single thing He does not know.
In order for God to say He is omniscient means He knows everything there is to ever know.

I would rather discuss why you can not put together a coherent thought before trying to discuss Genesis 3.

Here is what I am talking about...



Make sense out of that...

God did know what they had done.

.......

Try learning instead of whining.

Actually the Hebrew says 3:22 Then Yahweh said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us knowing good and evil; and now, lest he keep on putting forth his hand (Qal imperfect 3ms) and keep on taking (waqetal sequential perfect) and keep on eating (waqetal sequential perfect) from it and keep on living (waqetal sequential perfect) indefinitely.

Eating from it once does not make one permanently immortal. Continually eating from it keeps you immortal. Rev. 22:1-2, 19

PaulThomson said:
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."

Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.

He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.



No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.

Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.

Except that you, yourself, reworded 'dead in sin' in your own words... so, why the double standard?

Curious...
How long you been saved and reading the Bible?

If your walking free in his garden and innocent why does he need to know what you will do next.


Here's some suggestions for you to answer. And 5 truths


Genesis 3
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

The lord only knew they had ate of the tree of knowledge because they told him I was naked.


Which also means they where walking in innocence with no shame and with no shame of who there father was.

Which should also mean they where created not to sin..


Genesis 3
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

God needed to ask eve if she had done this, after only knowing they had ate from the tree of knowledge because they knew they where naked.

He now needs clarity.

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this.


The lord says because you have done this to the serpent, which is suggesting what he knows when his children are speaking the truth. Not because he knew serpent had eaten..


Genesis 3

“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden


Firstly God says and now they have become like us, which says he did not know it would happen, because he chose not to know, ie not to know what they would would do next.

Not because he didn't know.

Or not because hes not all knowing.


It also says let us block the tree of life before they eat from it, Which implies he didn't know at this stage either whether they would.l have eaten from it,


He then banished them from the garden.

He then chose to know what they did before they did it.

Not control what they do.


So here is a total of 5 truths


Are you going to deny all 5 truths.

In favor of your own bias

Why does God need to know everything?
Read David.
As God creates each human being He knows how many days you will live.
That means He knows that today I am going to do things I haven't done yet.
It's not a need to know, He just knows.
When He formed Adam He knew every day Adam would live.
That means He knew Adam would sin.
How can this actually be an issue with you?
Haven't you read your Bible?
God knows everything.

And I gave you the perfect answer about Adam.
Adam sinned, God asked Adam what happened.
Cain kill Abel, God asked Cain where's your brother.
He knows.
He just makes us accountable for our actions.

let's discuss what he needed to know before the fall, first. Not after, first.

So that we can both sing from the same hymn book

Then we can talk about understanding God's will that lives in all men.

😊😊😊🍞🍞☕☕☕☕

Forty-two years.

I did not complain about rewording scriptural phrases to explain what those phrases could mean. That is quite a different thing from creating a theological term that is not in the Bible, like "spiritually dead", and using that term assuming it is a scriptural concept, and inserting the concept wherever texts that use the word "dead" and it does not mean presently physically dead.

Obviously, to explain what one thinks a text means I need to paraphrase the text to distinguish my interpretation of the text's language from other proposed interpretations. But using the term "spiritually dead" without describing what that means to me, as if everyone should a priori accept the term as biblical and meaning what I want to pack into that term, such as being as unable as a corpse to do anything spiritual, or anything salvific, or anything pleasing to God.