Predestination is misunderstood...
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PaulThomson said:
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."
Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.
He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.
No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.
Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."
Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.
He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.
No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.
Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.
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A good example of what you dislike:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/did-god-occupy-any-space-before-creation.213489/
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/did-god-occupy-any-space-before-creation.213489/
If your walking free in his garden and innocent why does he need to know what you will do next.
Here's some suggestions for you to answer. And 5 truths
Genesis 3
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
The lord only knew they had ate of the tree of knowledge because they told him I was naked.
Which also means they where walking in innocence with no shame and with no shame of who there father was.
Which should also mean they where created not to sin..
Genesis 3
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
God needed to ask eve if she had done this, after only knowing they had ate from the tree of knowledge because they knew they where naked.
He now needs clarity.
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this.
The lord says because you have done this to the serpent, which is suggesting what he knows when his children are speaking the truth. Not because he knew serpent had eaten..
Genesis 3
“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden
Firstly God says and now they have become like us, which says he did not know it would happen, because he chose not to know, ie not to know what they would would do next.
Not because he didn't know.
Or not because hes not all knowing.
It also says let us block the tree of life before they eat from it, Which implies he didn't know at this stage either whether they would.l have eaten from it,
He then banished them from the garden.
He then chose to know what they did before they did it.
Not control what they do.
So here is a total of 5 truths
Are you going to deny all 5 truths.
In favor of your own bias
Here's some suggestions for you to answer. And 5 truths
Genesis 3
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
The lord only knew they had ate of the tree of knowledge because they told him I was naked.
Which also means they where walking in innocence with no shame and with no shame of who there father was.
Which should also mean they where created not to sin..
Genesis 3
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
God needed to ask eve if she had done this, after only knowing they had ate from the tree of knowledge because they knew they where naked.
He now needs clarity.
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this.
The lord says because you have done this to the serpent, which is suggesting what he knows when his children are speaking the truth. Not because he knew serpent had eaten..
Genesis 3
“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden
Firstly God says and now they have become like us, which says he did not know it would happen, because he chose not to know, ie not to know what they would would do next.
Not because he didn't know.
Or not because hes not all knowing.
It also says let us block the tree of life before they eat from it, Which implies he didn't know at this stage either whether they would.l have eaten from it,
He then banished them from the garden.
He then chose to know what they did before they did it.
Not control what they do.
So here is a total of 5 truths
Are you going to deny all 5 truths.
In favor of your own bias
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1
- Show all
PaulThomson said:
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."
Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.
He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.
No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.
Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.
I did not complain about rewording scriptural phrases to explain what those phrases could mean. That is quite a different thing from creating a theological term that is not in the Bible, like "spiritually dead", and using that term assuming it is a scriptural concept, and inserting the concept wherever texts that use the word "dead" and it does not mean presently physically dead.
Obviously, to explain what one thinks a text means I need to paraphrase the text to distinguish my interpretation of the text's language from other proposed interpretations. But using the term "spiritually dead" without describing what that means to me, as if everyone should a priori accept the term as biblical and meaning what I want to pack into that term, such as being as unable as a corpse to do anything spiritual, or anything salvific, or anything pleasing to God.
I could suggest that we are dead in our sins in the sense that we are condemned to a future second death because of the sins we are still considered responsible for ... like the gangster saying "You're a dead man."
Or, we are alienated from God because of our sins, like the prodigal son was dead until he contritely returned to the father.
He quickens us by forgiving us our sins and giving us a new pure spirit into which He comes and abides within us continuously.
No. I would prefer people discussed what biblical texts actually say, and not make unbiblical terms and fill those terms with all kinds of imaginative unbiblical meaning, and then use them as though they actually stand for something biblical.
Suggest a text with "dead" in it, and we can discuss what dead could mean there.
I did not complain about rewording scriptural phrases to explain what those phrases could mean. That is quite a different thing from creating a theological term that is not in the Bible, like "spiritually dead", and using that term assuming it is a scriptural concept, and inserting the concept wherever texts that use the word "dead" and it does not mean presently physically dead.
Obviously, to explain what one thinks a text means I need to paraphrase the text to distinguish my interpretation of the text's language from other proposed interpretations. But using the term "spiritually dead" without describing what that means to me, as if everyone should a priori accept the term as biblical and meaning what I want to pack into that term, such as being as unable as a corpse to do anything spiritual, or anything salvific, or anything pleasing to God.
Why does God need to know everything?
Read David.
As God creates each human being He knows how many days you will live.
That means He knows that today I am going to do things I haven't done yet.
It's not a need to know, He just knows.
When He formed Adam He knew every day Adam would live.
That means He knew Adam would sin.
How can this actually be an issue with you?
Haven't you read your Bible?
God knows everything.
And I gave you the perfect answer about Adam.
Adam sinned, God asked Adam what happened.
Cain kill Abel, God asked Cain where's your brother.
He knows.
He just makes us accountable for our actions.
Read David.
As God creates each human being He knows how many days you will live.
That means He knows that today I am going to do things I haven't done yet.
It's not a need to know, He just knows.
When He formed Adam He knew every day Adam would live.
That means He knew Adam would sin.
How can this actually be an issue with you?
Haven't you read your Bible?
God knows everything.
And I gave you the perfect answer about Adam.
Adam sinned, God asked Adam what happened.
Cain kill Abel, God asked Cain where's your brother.
He knows.
He just makes us accountable for our actions.
God already knew Satan had fell from Heaven and knew Satan would attack God's human creation. So God knew Satan was going to do this and why God, before creating Earth, chose Jesus to be Saviour. You keep forgetting SIN happened before Adam was created. And Sin was going to remain until Jesus defeated it.
I do not consider the so-called spiritual dead do be a spiritual corpse as others might as much as I might consider it as a state of spiritual brain death, if you will. That is their brain is dead even if their body continues to function. And I do not believe it is that they cannot continue to in the activities of thinking but more that those must reach a designation of humility in the acknowledgement that they can do nothing, apart from God, to 'know' Him or to save themselves, though many would proudly suppose that they are 'just fine' seeing that their body yet functions.