Predestination is misunderstood...

yeah and nay laddy.

It looks like the sawdust has got up your nose again 😊

How is it irrelevant.. surely the condition of a mans will is more important than whether his will is free or not. 🤔

There are only two conditions of a man's will, either bound to sin or freed by grace.

We were discussing what the will is and what it does which, is to make choices. It makes no matter the status of the will as it will make choices whether it is free or not. The difference is the object of it's choice. One is bound to sin the other is free by grace to choose God if one desires the goodness of God. Even after salvation, one must continue to walk in the Spirit by means of grace. If not, one will necessarily be walking after the flesh and be bound to sin again.

How do you think the bound will is set free to make a choice for God if not freed by grace?

Try understanding the actual discussion and not going off on your tangents. I think the bolt through your head has scrambled your brain.

This is Willfully willing me to to bow down to your understanding of will. Yes your free inside your mind to think, speak.

But this is your brain thinking, where as your will is a nature an emotion.

And to be honest I think you could do with a few jolts 😋

Scripture is clear the whole world is imprisoned to sin.

Imprisoned means there's no way to escape other than to be set free by Christ. But then your under the will of Christ,

The whole world that is imprisoned by sin is also bound by the law. God is controlling the world with his law, and he controls your destiny. You don't control your destiny in this world.

Such people can think they have free will to escape the law, and many people find ways to live in sin and not get caught. They might think they have free will, but what they really have is a corrupted will.

There head is telling them there free to do what they want.

Just like the crack heads singing im free to do what I want any old time.

Yeah the many destined for hell are all saying the same thing..

Then there's the Freddy Mercury people dressing up as women singing I want to break free.

I really don't know how many times I must say a man's will must be freed by grace before it sinks into your brain. Without grace the will is bound to sin. Can you not understand that message?

Volition is not an emotion. Emotions come and go according to circumstance, we don't choose our emotions. They are a very basic part of the brain's working. It requires will and reason to keep them under control.

You are only under the will of Christ as you are transformed in your thinking and are led by the Spirit. Neither of these things are automatic which is why the scripture says we must work out our salvation with trembling. (Phil.2:12) We have been given all things in Christ, He holds them like in a trust account. This is known as positional truth but if we want them experientially then we need to co-operate with His plan. Those who (after salvation) walk according to the flesh and lean on their own understanding will not know the depths, heights and breadth of the riches of God's grace. They will not know how to say, as Paul did, I am content in all things. (Phil.4:11) He had to learn that, it is not automatic.

And you are right that in the end God's will will prevail, but this does not alleviate man of his response ability when the Lord ensures all men know the truth of His existence. (Rom.1:19)

can you will something like God can,.

This is one meaning of will.

Explain how volition the ability to make a choice has any thing to do with that.

Another meaning of will

Is good will and peace to you.
will is expressed as grace in this instance.


Then we have a will we leave to people

Then you have a will to live.

Honestly sir tell me how any of these explanations of will can't be controlled.

God can control his will.

You can strengthen your will

You can weaken your will.

You can knowingly weaken your will, and knowingly strengthen your will.

You know your losing the will to live, so you choose to do something about it.

You can play your silly games on your own thanks if you are unwilling to understand the context.

Those in him; believers, who make up his body. The church, as a body was pre-destined to a certain fate: conformity to the image of the son of God.

Those who do not believe... have a different destination.

You and I are not pre-destined to be in or out of that body; as we have a choice to believe or not believe.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Please read the bolded and underlined portion. It does not say "predestined to be saved" or "predestined to be justified". You automatically assumed that.

My understanding is, that God done all those things to save us from the punishment our sins deserve. Being justified, glorified and made heirs of His victory and reward, are all added blessings.
The main reason Christ suffered and paid the paid the penalty for our sins, was to save us from condemnation. That's how I understand it, I'm happy to be corrected if I have misinterpreted those verses.

So you can totally dismiss 5 different meanings of will that can be controlled by choice (volition) in favour of will being the same as choice 🤔

And you claim I'm the one playing word games

Your volition is your will. You know the context in which we were discussing it so don't give me the run around and pretend you're the victim.

I asked you a simple question, the true meaning of the word will, is the ability to will something,

So the only thing about your will is the ability to surrender to his will.

So the only thing about your will is the ability to surrender to his will.

I'm listening to all these people express free will, with totally puzzling deep thinking that people don't understand.

And this is what has been said to you many, many times already but you can't seem to comprehend what is said. The only way you can surrender your will is if first God applies his grace so your will is free from the bondage of sin so you can make the choice to do God's will. But the choice is yours and yours alone. God does not co-erce, manipulate or in any way force the response from you.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself. Learn to understand what is said before you make any more comments.

what your not understanding is it is not your will,

Your will was born under God. He created it

God created everything even your will.

Your choice has nothing to do with your will.

If your will was free you would be God.

You would be able to will anything

You can't

what your not understanding is it is not your will,

Your will was born under God. He created it

God created everything even your will.

Your choice has nothing to do with your will.

If your will was free you would be God.

You would be able to will anything

You can't

Choice has everything to do with the will.

Your volition is your will. You know the context in which we were discussing it so don't give me the run around and pretend you're the victim.