Predestination is misunderstood...

[Thunderrr-mental]

Oh. My. Goodness. How freaking dense can you be and still breathe? You literally *just* argued that Scripture says the devil comes and takes away the seed.

This is why discourse with you is so frustrating: you can’t follow the thread of conversation!

I guess you really like to test people's patience, it's one deflection after the next with you. 😊 Obviously you have a big issue with surrendering to the truth.


Here it is again



Luke 8:11-18

New International Version



11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.


Every question I asked you was true.

The seed is planted in the heart,

And its taken away

One account says the heart bears joy ( a fruit) and even still, the seed is taken away).

will you explain how can the fruits of the spirit placed in the heart, not be controlled by the law, how is it possible the fruits of the spirit can not be controlled, if they have no will, explain why.

And why do the fruits of the spirit have no will.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Oh. My. Goodness. How freaking dense can you be and still breathe? You literally *just* argued that Scripture says the devil comes and takes away the seed.

This is why discourse with you is so frustrating: you can’t follow the thread of conversation!

You know I've met some stubborn people in my time and I've come across people who really love to bait people. But you sir have totaly surpassed them.

I once knew someone just like you, he ruined quite of lot of people life's, and nobody speaks to him no more, he's just a bitter old man now.


That sir will be you the way your going.

 

[sawdust]

.you have will but it's not free when your unsaved it's cursed


Why would you be concerned about the will of an unsaved person.

The post I addressed was discussing what the will is, not it's status quo, so it's freedom is irrelevant. The choices you make are an action of of your will, whether it is in bondage to sin or whether it is free, does not prevent the will acting.

It's enslaved, not cursed that is why grace is required to set it free from the influences that bind it. This way your response to the Lord when He manifests the truth, is your response and a reflection of the real you, the you, you would have been if you hadn't inherited Adam's sin.

 

[Johann]

how does God know what we do before we do it.

Because He is YHVH-and that's all you need to know-for the moment.
J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Because He is YHVH-and that's all you need to know-for the moment.
J.

I always ask this question, and quite often this is the answer, I got.

Have you asked God as to why or how he's able to know, what you do before you do it. Have you waited for an answer.

You say that he can because he's God, and that's that. That sounds like you haven't asked him.

But yet your happy to discuss ideas that are based on God setting the future. When you don't know why he knows what you will do next.


So once again why is it he knows.

Does he knows because he sets your future

Does he know because a part of his spirit lives outside of our time like say one year ahead of your time, but a part of his spirit also lives in our time to.


How does he know johann.


You know johann you need to know.

Because you say your struggling with all theese theologies also centred around God setting the future.

But I bet also none of them know how he knows your future.

There unsaved Johann, people who argue about stuff they don't know about God and then act like they know better, are clearly a law unto themselves.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The post I addressed was discussing what the will is, not it's status quo, so it's freedom is irrelevant. The choices you make are an action of of your will, whether it is in bondage to sin or whether it is free, does not prevent the will acting.

It's enslaved, not cursed that is why grace is required to set it free from the influences that bind it. This way your response to the Lord when He manifests the truth, is your response and a reflection of the real you, the you, you would have been if you hadn't inherited Adam's sin.

yeah and nay laddy.

It looks like the sawdust has got up your nose again 😊

How is it irrelevant.. surely the condition of a mans will is more important than whether his will is free or not. 🤔

 

[Johann]

There unsaved Johann, people who argue about stuff they don't know about God and then act like they know better, are clearly a law unto themselves.

"Johann" is still a work in progress and I don't claim to know it all-just so you know.
But I "press on" and study, more than any of my contemporaries-my style of life.
J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

"Johann" is still a work in progress and I don't claim to know it all-just so you know.
But I "press on" and study, more than any of my contemporaries-my style of life.
J.

Are you concerned by God setting the future,

This is all I'm asking.

Are you influenced by those who claim There is nothing you can do, because every you do is predestined by the father.

Do you get premonitions 🤔

You know do you ever know yourself something is going to happen before it happens.

 

[Dino246]

I guess you really like to test people's patience, it's one deflection after the next with you. 😊 Obviously you have a big issue with surrendering to the truth.

I'm not surrendering to the truth? You posted the parable and apparently didn't read it for yourself to see your error.

11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Now, I did say that the seed is not taken away, but I said that meaning God does not take away the seed. The text doesn't say that God takes away the seed, does it? Yet you ask me, how do I know that God doesn't take away the seed? Simple: the text says the devil takes away the seed.

One account says the heart bears joy ( a fruit) and even still, the seed is taken away).

While joy is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit, that doesn't mean God doesn't allow unsaved people to experience joy. Unsaved people can experience joy in hearing the word of God but not do anything with it.

will you explain how can the fruits of the spirit placed in the heart, not be controlled by the law, how is it possible the fruits of the spirit can not be controlled, if they have no will, explain why.

Your questions don't make sense. You're employing category errors again.

And why do the fruits of the spirit have no will.

Because God did not endow them with a soul, part of which is the will.

 

[Dino246]

You know I've met some stubborn people in my time and I've come across people who really love to bait people. But you sir have totaly surpassed them.

I once knew someone just like you, he ruined quite of lot of people life's, and nobody speaks to him no more, he's just a bitter old man now.

That sir will be you the way your going.

I am not "baiting" you or anyone else. I am explaining some points of Scripture (and language) to you. Understanding has been chasing you vigorously, but so far, you have been faster.

 

[HeIsHere]

And I believe He chooses.

Can you clarify?

In one post you seemed to hold to limited atonement?

 

[HeIsHere]

How freaking dense can you be and still breathe?

One would think you have a bit more insight and understanding than this, honestly, some people just argue, twist and turn that is how they are, but this insult over the top.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I'm not surrendering to the truth? You posted the parable and apparently didn't read it for yourself to see your error.

11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Now, I did say that the seed is not taken away, but I said that meaning God does not take away the seed. The text doesn't say that God takes away the seed, does it? Yet you ask me, how do I know that God doesn't take away the seed? Simple: the text says the devil takes away the seed.



While joy is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit, that doesn't mean God doesn't allow unsaved people to experience joy. Unsaved people can experience joy in hearing the word of God but not do anything with it.



Your questions don't make sense. You're employing category errors again.



Because God did not endow them with a soul, part of which is the will.

When a seed enters the heart, it's not just a word, it is the light sir.

It's important you recognise this fact.

The same seed and the same light saves people sir.

The same light stays on Gods authority.

The same seed protects there heart from the devil steeling there heart sir. Not the light (the seed ), the darkness has never understood the light.

Plain and simple sir if the devil steels that seed,. It because the seed, has left on God's authority.

When Satan takes a way there seed, he doesn't take the light does he sir

The light does not belong to him

He steels what could have been there seed,.because they choose to keep on following him.

So he can not actually steel Gods light can he.

 

[Dino246]

One would think you have a bit more insight and understanding than this, honestly.

Yes... my utter astonishment shone through there. I was amazed that T-m could cite an assertion from Scripture and, only a couple of posts later, ask me why the opposite is not true.

I was a jackdonkey. My bad.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes... my utter astonishment shone through there. I was amazed that T-m could cite an assertion from Scripture and, only a couple of posts later, ask me why the opposite is not true.

I was a jackdonkey. My bad.

you really are incredible sir.

 

[Dino246]

When a seed enters the heart, it's not just a word, it is the light sir.

It's important you recognise this fact.

The same seed and the same light saves people sir.

The same light stays on Gods authority.

The same seed protects there heart from the devil steeling there heart sir. Not the light (the seed ), the darkness has never understood the light.

Plain and simple sir if the devil steels that seed,. It because the seed, has left on God's authority.

When Satan takes a way there seed, he doesn't take the light does he sir

The light does not belong to him

He steels what could have been there seed,.because they choose to keep on following him.

So he can not actually steel Gods light can he.

I apologize for my frustrated response to you yesterday. As for today, I see you're on yet another rabbit trail, and I'm not interested in following it with you.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I apologize for my frustrated response to you yesterday. As for today, I see you're on yet another rabbit trail, and I'm not interested in following it with you.

no need to apologize 😊

But there is a need to see the seed as a
The light that enters the heart, and not just a word.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

One would think you have a bit more insight and understanding than this, honestly, some people just argue, twist and turn that is how they are, but this insult over the top.

who is twisting the word 🤔

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I apologize for my frustrated response to you yesterday. As for today, I see you're on yet another rabbit trail, and I'm not interested in following it with you.

When a seed enters the heart, it's not just a word, it is the light sir.

It's important you recognise this fact.

The same seed and the same light saves people sir.

The same light stays on Gods authority.

The same seed protects there heart from the devil steeling there heart sir. Not the light (the seed ), the darkness has never understood the light.

Plain and simple sir if the devil steels that seed,. It because the seed, has left on God's authority.

When Satan takes a way there seed, he doesn't take the light does he sir

The light does not belong to him

He steels what could have been there seed,.because they choose to keep on following him.

So he can not actually steel Gods light can he.

. So your not interested in knowing whether the word and seed that enters your heart is a light.

And your happy to dismiss it as a rabbit trail.

Tell me sir why is that

 

[Cameron143]

Can you clarify?

In one post you seemed to hold to limited atonement?

Was this the whole quote? I'm not sure the context in which I wrote.
I do believe in a limited atonement based on the justice of God. I don't believe this is inconsistent with men choosing. I do believe, however, man in his natural, fallen estate always chooses contrary to God. Thus, he must be enabled or changed by God to be able to believe or have faith. I believe this is what transpires in Acts 2:37 on the day of Pentecost which produces faith in 3,000 of those who were in attendance.
Am happy to go through and explain what I believe transpired spiritually and inwardly in verse 37 that leads to the outward response of verse 38 if you like.