The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
Miss the point much?
Indeed, you have. According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, you should not interpret Galatians 3:10 as quoting from that passage in order to support a point that is arguing against that passage, especially when he considered that passage to be Scripture.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
Look at the 10 Commandments

These sins are found by using the 10 Commandments
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So the Moral Law seems to be active.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
Whew, Thank Goodness! I’ve been up late all week worrying about this. In fact, I haven’t been able to sleep, with all the worry over possibly breaking any of the laws of the Torah. Is there any relief for me?! If only someone could take away all this worry and fear. If there was only some payment or sacrifice on my behalf, for breaking one of these laws!
Jesus set a prefect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to refuse to learn from his example. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to correctly guide us in how to rightly live through the Torah. The fact that Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins should make us want to go and sin no more by living in obedience to the Torah, not consider ourselves free to do the things that God has revealed to be sin through the Torah.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
113
Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so why does it make sense to you to think that the way to deny Christ is by following his example instead of by refusing to follow him?
What part of "it is impossible to follow the Judaism Jesus practiced" do you not understand?
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
Where does it say that?
Luke 14:5 And he said to them, “Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?”
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
This is indeed a Christian forum, but you will see from this thread that some people who believe themselves to be Christians are advocating that Christians must obey the entire Torah. Don’t blame me for the stupid stuff that others post.
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 3:4). It should not be strange for some people in a Christian forum to advocate that followers of Christ should follow his example.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
113
It should not be strange for some people in a Christian forum to advocate that followers of Christ should follow his example.
What is strange is that you acknowledge on the one hand that it is impossible to follow Judaism as Jesus practiced it, while at the same time claiming that we should practice the same religion that Jesus did/walk as He did.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
Maybe we should go back to arranged marriages.

from "several research groups"
In the United States, while the divorce rate hovers around 40 or 50 percent, the divorce rate for arranged marriages is 4 percent.
Nov 2, 2023
Arranged marriages are certainly not the evil that is promoted in Hollywood. Being infatuated with someone clouds our judgement and can cause us to ignore red flags that a 3rd party would not overlook. There are advantages for young people to lean on wisdom of their parents and trust them to make a good choice about whom to marry. There are certainly pros and cons to each.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
If we SIN, and all sins have been defined under the Law, is it ok to say according to the definition of sins in the Law my sin fits that category?
I don't understand your question. Can you rephrase it?.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
You are clearly misinterpreting (at best) or not understanding (at worst).

To whom was Matthew's gospel written? Clearly, it was written to the Jewish people to give them understanding of their Messiah. It was not written to Christians! When He warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it, that was said before the new covenant was instituted.

Have you forgotten about Romans 6:14? To refresh your memory... "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace. "

Or Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

If, as a Christian, you put yourself under the OT law, YOU ARE DENYING CHRIST!
Something happened to the quote tag in post #119, so I'm tagging you to make sure that you saw it.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
213
43
I think the issue is are Christians still under the law. If we are my neighbor is gonna be missin' her goat tonight and a couple fowl. ;)
You know, you figure this was a Christian forum and then you encounter garbage like this, where people are on here are apparently not even saved. The posters on this thread don’t even know that Jesus lived and died for our sins. I guess we need to go back through Romans 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9-10, 10:13.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
What part of "it is impossible to follow the Judaism Jesus practiced" do you not understand?
What part of we should follow Christ's example to the extent that we are able to don't you understand?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,623
13,865
113
Indeed, you have.
I’m not missing anything. YOU are still missing the point… badly. You said this:

“ We should follow the Torah to the extent that we are able to obey it and we are not required to obey commands that can't currently be obeyed.”

I quoted Galatians 3:10 which CLEARLY refutes your error. Now instead of admitting that you were dead wrong, you’re sidestepping and changing the subject.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,897
1,084
113
Oregon
~
Many of the Jews with whom I've dialogued are fiercly defensive of the
covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy because it defines their ethnic identity, i.e.
taking away the first covenant effectively takes away the one thing that
makes the Jews feel special.


However, their defense is little more than jousting windmills because no one
has been able to practice Moses' convent properly since 70 AD when Titus
destroyed Jerusalem. As a result, the Judaism that most Jews practice today
isn't Moses' Judaism, rather, it's a rabbinical form of Judaism adjusted to
compensate for the Jews' lack of access to the covenant's atonement
system.


Well; unfortunately: God prohibits adjusted versions of the covenant.

Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take
anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God
that I enjoin upon you.


Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has
commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only
the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,623
13,865
113
You know, you figure this was a Christian forum and then you encounter garbage like this, where people are on here are apparently not even saved. The posters on this thread don’t even know that Jesus lived and died for our sins.
Apparently you don’t have a sense of humour but are happy to make grossly unwarranted assumptions about people of whom you know nothing whatsoever.

Lighten up.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
113
What part of we should follow Christ's example to the extent that we are able to don't you understand?
I see. So part of the error is in your refusal to amend what you say... until after being called out on it each time you parrot your falsehoods.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
213
43
Apparently you don’t have a sense of humour but are happy to make grossly unwarranted assumptions about people of whom you know nothing whatsoever.

Lighten up.
Im lightening up, I’m just a little amazed at where the level of spirituality/understanding is - level zero. Oh well, guess if I don’t like it, I don’t need to click on it.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
43
I’m not missing anything. YOU are still missing the point… badly. You said this:

“ We should follow the Torah to the extent that we are able to obey it and we are not required to obey commands that can't currently be obeyed.”

I quoted Galatians 3:10 which CLEARLY refutes your error. Now instead of admitting that you were dead wrong, you’re sidestepping and changing the subject.
Again, there is nothing wrong with not obeying a law that can't currently be obeyed, but that shouldn't stop us from obeying all of the laws that we can obey. Jesus did not obey the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth, but there is there is no sin or curse in that. According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on God's law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so the point that Pau was making in Galatians 3:10 should be understood in a way that is in accordance with what he was quoting from to support his point, not a way that contradicts what he was quoting from.

For what it is worth, this was taught to early Christians:

Didache 6:2 For if you are able to bear all the yoke of the Lord, you will be perfect; but if you are not able, what you are able that do.

But you demand perfect obedience even to the laws that can't be obeyed and you don't care that your position is absurd.