Okay lol. This is a Christian forum right? There’s some things that we don’t need to go back over. Do we really need to discuss Stoning or falling into a well? Cmon man. Not sure what the issue is. But on the other hand, I’m not even sure this is a Christian forum by some of the stupid stuff that gets posted.
The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It
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Jeremiah 30:30-33 (chabad.org)
30 . . Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant
with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant.
31. . Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I
took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they
broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord.
32 . . For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after
those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will
inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My
people.
33 . . And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his
brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their
smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and
their sin I will no longer remember.
The thing to note is that the new covenant's "My law" in verse 32 isn't a
repetition of the "My covenant" in verse 31.
For example: God says; "their sin I will no longer remember" when Yom
Kippur's very purpose is an annual remembrance of the people's sins, i.e.
there's no Yom Kippur in the new covenant.
Plus: verse 31 says the new covenant is "not like" the covenant that I
formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take
them out of the land of Egypt.
A significant difference between the two covenants pertains to enforcement,
i.e. the first covenant's law is compulsory with curses for non compliance
hanging over people's heads like the sword of Damocles, whereas the new
covenant's law is voluntary, i.e. the first is a legal system whereas the new is
an honor system.
_
Jeremiah 30:30-33 (chabad.org)
30 . . Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant
with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant.
31. . Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I
took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they
broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord.
32 . . For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after
those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will
inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My
people.
33 . . And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his
brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their
smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and
their sin I will no longer remember.
The thing to note is that the new covenant's "My law" in verse 32 isn't a
repetition of the "My covenant" in verse 31.
For example: God says; "their sin I will no longer remember" when Yom
Kippur's very purpose is an annual remembrance of the people's sins, i.e.
there's no Yom Kippur in the new covenant.
Plus: verse 31 says the new covenant is "not like" the covenant that I
formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take
them out of the land of Egypt.
A significant difference between the two covenants pertains to enforcement,
i.e. the first covenant's law is compulsory with curses for non compliance
hanging over people's heads like the sword of Damocles, whereas the new
covenant's law is voluntary, i.e. the first is a legal system whereas the new is
an honor system.
_
The Torah was given to Israel to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.
For example, do you think that the greatest two commandments and the commandments against committing rape, kidnapping, and favoritism are not effective for all humanity?
While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same eternal character traits and therefore the same eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with His eternal character traits, which is why the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.
Likewise, sin was in the world before the Torah was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when it was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. For example, it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9 long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, it remains as sin after it has become obsolete, and if this were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal.
In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Torah in connection with the promise.
In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to come under the grace of God and to believe in the finished work of Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to nullify the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.
In Psalms 19:7, the Torah is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, the Torah is of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1-3, the Torah blesses those who obey it, so when Jame 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Torah that wasn't already said in the Psalms. Moreover, in James 2:1-13, he spoke agains the sin of favoritism, which is not listed as one of the Ten Commandments. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example, which included teaching more than just the Ten Commandments, so the Torah is the Law of Christ.
Obedience to the Torah through faith is the one and only way of salvation by the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was. light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of believing and obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom.[/quote]
For example, do you think that the greatest two commandments and the commandments against committing rape, kidnapping, and favoritism are not effective for all humanity?
While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same eternal character traits and therefore the same eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with His eternal character traits, which is why the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.
Likewise, sin was in the world before the Torah was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when it was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. For example, it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9 long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, it remains as sin after it has become obsolete, and if this were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal.
In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Torah in connection with the promise.
In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to come under the grace of God and to believe in the finished work of Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to nullify the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.
In Psalms 19:7, the Torah is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, the Torah is of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1-3, the Torah blesses those who obey it, so when Jame 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Torah that wasn't already said in the Psalms. Moreover, in James 2:1-13, he spoke agains the sin of favoritism, which is not listed as one of the Ten Commandments. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example, which included teaching more than just the Ten Commandments, so the Torah is the Law of Christ.
Obedience to the Torah through faith is the one and only way of salvation by the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was. light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of believing and obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom.[/quote]
"In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Torah in connection with the promise." -- Soyeong
You have totally perverted the meaning of Galatians 3:16-19 which says that the Law CANNOT DISANNUL the promise made to Abraham! Now read this carefully:
17And this I say, that the covenant [made with Abraham], that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, (which was four hundred and thirty years after), cannot disannul, that it should make the promise [to Abraham] of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What does it say? The Law CANNOT DISANNUL the promise. But you are telling people THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Since you are so blind to the truth about the New Covenant, there is no point is discussing this with you. The New Testament says that the Old Covenant has been abolished, so you are simply contradicting the Bible (and creating a problem for yourself).
You have totally perverted the meaning of Galatians 3:16-19 which says that the Law CANNOT DISANNUL the promise made to Abraham! Now read this carefully:
17And this I say, that the covenant [made with Abraham], that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, (which was four hundred and thirty years after), cannot disannul, that it should make the promise [to Abraham] of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What does it say? The Law CANNOT DISANNUL the promise. But you are telling people THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Since you are so blind to the truth about the New Covenant, there is no point is discussing this with you. The New Testament says that the Old Covenant has been abolished, so you are simply contradicting the Bible (and creating a problem for yourself).
In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites will return from exile, God will circumcise their hearts, and they will return to obedience to the Torah, which is the basis for the New Covenant. In Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:33, the context is speaking about the Israelites returning from exile, and they are describing God as circumcising our hearts by means of the Spirit, and they are speaking about returning to obedience to the Torah in accordance with the New Covenant by saying that God will take away our heart of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Torah, and where He will put the Torah in our minds and write it on our hearts. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Torah and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Torah. So the New Covenant is also about Israel returning to obedience to the Torah, and while it is not like the Mosaic Covenant, the way that it is not like the Mosaic Covenant is not in regard to following the Torah. In the New Covenant, everyone will know God from the least to the greatest and the Torah is God's instructions for how to know Him, so we will all be obeying the Torah.
The point of the promise is to bless the nations, which is in accordance with teaching the nations to obey the Torah, so it is not removed from he blessings and curses.
The point of the promise is to bless the nations, which is in accordance with teaching the nations to obey the Torah, so it is not removed from he blessings and curses.
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You are clearly misinterpreting (at best) or not understanding (at worst).
To whom was Matthew's gospel written? Clearly, it was written to the Jewish people to give them understanding of their Messiah. It was not written to Christians! When He warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it, that was said before the new covenant was instituted.
Have you forgotten about Romans 6:14? To refresh your memory... "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace. "
Or Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."
If, as a Christian, you put yourself under the OT law, YOU ARE DENYING CHRIST!
You are clearly misinterpreting (at best) or not understanding (at worst).
To whom was Matthew's gospel written? Clearly, it was written to the Jewish people to give them understanding of their Messiah. It was not written to Christians! When He warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it, that was said before the new covenant was instituted.
Have you forgotten about Romans 6:14? To refresh your memory... "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace. "
Or Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."
If, as a Christian, you put yourself under the OT law, YOU ARE DENYING CHRIST!
Whew, Thank Goodness! I’ve been up late all week worrying about this. In fact, I haven’t been able to sleep, with all the worry over possibly breaking any of the laws of the Torah. Is there any relief for me?! If only someone could take away all this worry and fear. If there was only some payment or sacrifice on my behalf, for breaking one of these laws!
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While I agree that Galatians 3:16-19 is speaking about God's law not nullifying the promise made to Abraham, it is just as true that the New Covenant does not nullify the promise that was made to Abraham. While we do not earn the the promise as the result of having first obeyed God's law, that does not mean that that the content of what is promised is not in regard to obeying God's law. In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because his children did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law. So the position that the New Covenant nullifies our need to obey the Mosaic Law nullifies the promise made to Abraham, which is contrary to Galatians 3:16-19. I agree that the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, but the Mosaic Law and the promise did not become obsolete along with it.
I think the issue is are Christians still under the law. If we are my neighbor is gonna be missin' her goat tonight and a couple fowl. 
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I think the issue is are Christians still under the law. If we are my neighbor is gonna be missin' her goat tonight and a couple fowl.
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I think the issue is are Christians still under the law. If we are my neighbor is gonna be missin' her goat tonight and a couple fowl.
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