Predestination is misunderstood...

This is what you keep missing. Mans' soul is not set to be contrary to God, his flesh is. His soul becomes contrary to God because he cannot get away from his flesh. But, when grace steps in and controls all the negative influences then the soul can be revealed for who and what one truly is. It is the flesh that is against the Spirit, not the mind. The mind is imprisoned and learns to be contrary and will become utterly corrupted and beyond salvation if (maybe they will, maybe they won't) one desires darkness more than light. This is why, even after salvation, we are told not to walk according to the flesh and to be transformed in our thinking. (not because we can lose our salvation but because we can lose the benefits of salvation ie. a renewed mind and the power over sin)

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If a dead man can't see the truth? Then how does an unbeliever reject the unknown? The fact unbelievers are not regenerated shows one does not have to be born again to understand the truth needed for salvation and can believe of their own free will.

Sure. But that just meant salvation would be open to the Gentiles under the new covenant. His earthly ministry was almost exclusively to israel. In fact this was true of history for the most part. And even since the cross many people groups never heard the gospel.

Spirit there is capitalized. That is referring to the Holy Spirit and not the spirit of man. So that verse only has application to a saved person.
I'm not missing your first point. I disagree with it. The natural man is in every regard...mind, heart, will...corrupt. This doesn't render man unable to function in the natural realm; only the spiritual realm. Thus, man can know that God exists from his understanding of creation and through conscience because eternity has been placed in his heart. This is sufficient to render man guilty before God, but unable to understand his condition or to do anything about it.

, Every infant has an angel that stares back in in the face of God.

How can a infant ask this of God.

An infant is not able to make decision of choice by themselves, as they have no clear understanding of right and wrong

Matthew 18:10

New International Version



The Parable of the Wandering Sheep
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

I believe this is how the father draws people to the son.
All theese anti predestination people,
Who just use a doctrine created by one person hundreds of years ago to see predestination as somethin bad, or associated it to fatalism,.or John Calvin,


Well Lear's Just say,..there quite clearly narrow minded.

There all mumbled up, in there own free will, rejecting everything and anything.

OK

And it also enables him to hear the truth of the Gospel. You think God ensures man knows he is condemned but doesn't ensure he can hear the solution to the problem?

Has nothing to do with the spirit of man. I was talking about the soul which is the source of heart, mind and will. The scripture says it is the flesh which is against the Spirit, not the mind, heart or will (soul). It is also why it says to set your mind on the Spirit and not on the flesh. If these things cannot be divided then we are without hope.

You can disagree all you like but you are wrong.

I would be very skeptical of such a story based on scripture. One needs to know and believe God exists before they can have or grow in faith.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.


There is a sense in which we are all non-believers before we believe the Gospel, however I see people in two camps. Unbelievers and believers. Some in the latter camp simply haven't been revealed as yet so we still tend to refer to them as unbelievers. I suspect your poster was differentiating between having faith and not having faith. That is a slightly different story as you can't have faith until you believe the Gospel.

The one truth the unregenerated can accept which is needed in salvation, is that they sin.
Any unbeliever can know he is a sinner.

God's grace draws draws them utilizing that truth their flesh can accept, and then presents them an offer they can refuse... or to accept.

Its only after regeneration that spiritual truths become an issue.
That is when one must be regenerated to know a choice is to be made.

Any unbeliever can know he is a sinner.
Knowing that does not take regeneration to know.

Don't continue being a jackdonkey. Own your foolish errors, apologize, and move on.

Your behaviour is one of the most ignorant i have ever come across.

I'm telling you now, that when you stand before God, and he comes back to settle disputes, only then will you apologise, for your behavior all i see in you is a hardened heart now,

Encouraging people to think of disabled people as trolls is not something I have ever heard any Christian say,

Then to demand that I answer your questions on whether a disabled person can be a troll.

Has got to be the most disturbing thing I've ever heard,

You sir will be out on my ignore forever.

And I will never speak to you again and I will never put my trust in you ever again.

Goodbye.

This is not an intellectual contest-"Mighty one"

he's always calling people nonsense, because he follows opinion of narrow minded people here.

Which reminds me of this-


The Parable of the Four Soils, also known as the Parable of the Sower, appears in three synoptic Gospels—Matthew, Mark, and Luke. The parable uses agricultural imagery to describe the varied responses to the proclamation of the Kingdom of Heaven. The four types of soil symbolize different receptions of the Word of God:

Path: The seed falls on a hardened path, and birds eat it before it takes root. This represents those who do not receive the Word because they do not understand or pay attention to it.

Rocky Ground: The seed sprouts quickly, but the plants wither when faced with adversity. This represents those whose faith is initially strong but fails to survive trials and tribulations.

Amidst Thorns: The seed grows amidst weeds, and the weeds strangle the plants. This represents those whose faith is hindered by worldly concerns and materialism.

Good Soil: The seed germinates and bears abundant fruit. This represents those who receive the Word with open hearts and allow it to shape their lives.

This parable serves as a reminder that the reception of the Word depends on the quality of the listener's heart, not the effectiveness of the speaker or the message itself

1. 
   God Seeks and Desires the Salvation of All:

• 2 Peter 3:9: "...not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
• 1 Timothy 2:3-4: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
• John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

These passages reveal God's universal love and desire for salvation to extend to everyone.

1. Jesus' Initial Focus on Israel:

• It's true that Jesus' earthly ministry initially focused on Israel. Matthew 15:24: "He answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.'"
• This aligns with Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah coming to fulfill God's promises to Israel.
• Jesus prioritized reaching the Jewish people first, demonstrating God's faithfulness to those promises.

1. The Mission Expands to the Gentiles:

• The Great Commission: In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands disciples: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations..." This indicates a broadening of the mission after Jesus' death and resurrection.
• Book of Acts: Records the spread of Christianity to Gentiles (non-Jews), fulfilling the promise that God's blessings would reach all nations through Abraham's seed.

Conclusion:

• While Jesus' initial ministry focused on Israel, Scripture reveals God's love and desire for salvation extends to all people.
• The Gospel message ultimately transcended any limitations, and Jesus' sacrifice is intended for the whole world.

perish. Gr. apollumi, +Mat_2:13, Here Calvinists attempt to circumvent the truth that God is not willing that any person should perish (cf. 1Ti_2:4 and note).

They claim that He is not willing that any of the "elect" perish, but that, implicitly, He is willing that all of the "unelect" masses perish. But the construction not willing, mē boulomenos, is a conditional statement. When mē, not, is used with a participle, as here, it expresses a condition and cannot apply to an "elect" group that is irresistibly and unconditionally saved. Further, all conceivable men translates the force of pantas (masculine gender), without the article.

The facts of Scripture are that there is no place whatsoever for limited atonement (cf. Joh_3:16; 2Co_5:14; Heb_2:9; 1Jn_2:2 and notes);

Calvinistic predestination (cf. Rom_8:29; Eph_1:4 and notes); irresistible grace (cf. Tit_2:11-12; Tit_2:14 and notes); unconditional security (cf. 1Pe_2:21 and note); etc. (LNT, fn b). Job_33:18, +Joh_10:29.
but that all. or, but for all conceivable men (LNT). All conceivable men translates the force of pantas (masculine gender) without the article (LNT, fn b). **FS171B, +Gen_24:10, +*Psa_86:5, Joh_1:7, **Joh_3:16, **Rom_2:4; +*Rom_5:18; *Rom_11:32, +*1Ti_2:4, *Heb_2:9, %**Rev_2:21; %**Rev_17:8.
should come. or, go and be received to repentance: the Greek implies there is room for their being received to repentance (compare Greek, Mar_2:2; Joh_8:37) [JFB]. Gr. chōreō (S# G5562, 2Co_7:2), to be in (give) space, that is, (intransitively) to hold, (literally or figuratively) admit (Strong); move on or advance to (Vincent). 2Ki_17:13, Psa_94:15, Eze_18:23; Eze_33:11, *Mat_11:28-30; Mat_20:16, Joh_1:12; Joh_3:16-20; **Joh_6:37; **Joh_6:65, %+*Act_18:27, Eph_1:4, Php_1:29, *2Th_2:13, +*1Ti_2:4, +*Jas_2:5, Rev_17:14; Rev_22:17.
to repentance. Gr. metanoia (S# G3341, Mat_3:8). 2Ki_17:13, Jer_8:6, Eze_18:32, +*Mat_3:2; Mat_9:13; Mat_21:31, Luk_5:32, +*Act_3:19.

Christ's death was efficacious for PANTAS-NOT a select "elect"
J.

draw. or, may draw. Aorist tense, active voice, subjunctive mood, third person singular verb. Logically,

Calvinism cannot base absolute sovereignty and absolute predestination or the doctrine of irresistible grace upon (or in the face of) the "may" of the subjunctive mood in the probable future third class condition here and in verse 65 (Joh_6:65), That would be an absolute contradiction in terms. "May" expresses contingency; the "third class condition" expresses probability, but not certainty, because of the contingency. The "third class condition" asserts that if a specified condition is met, a certain result will follow.

Thus, the Calvinistic position is proven absolutely untenable according to the grammar of Scripture. The terms of the contingency are expressed in Joh_6:37 and Joh_6:40, and include continuing belief. Gr. ελκυση (S# G1670: Joh_12:32; Joh_18:10; Joh_21:6; Joh_21:11; Act_16:19; Act_21:30; Jas_2:6). **Joh_6:65, Joh_4:23; *Joh_12:32, Gen_19:16, Psa_25:8, *Son_1:4, Jer_31:3, Hos_2:14; Hos_11:4, Rom_8:14.
and I. +Joh_6:39; +Joh_6:40.
raise. FS8, +Psa_118:1, +**Joh_5:29; Joh_11:25, +**Luk_14:14, +Act_2:30, 2Ti_1:12.
at the last day. +Joh_6:54 note. Joh_11:24.

J.

If they know they are a sinner,

and Know there is a God, who is just and holy

then they know they need help and can call out to God

that does not take regeneration