rapture cordial 'only' discussion

The answer is Revelation is a sealed book [in large part] just like Daniel was sealed to the Jews.

How can Revelation be a "sealed book" when it clearly shows that the seals were broken by Christ and then the events within those seals were described from Rev 4 to Rev 18?

Daniel was sealed until Revelation was written, but it is no longer sealed. Hence Christ said "let him who reads understand" when speaking of the Abomination of Desolation. That "abomination" is in fact an idol and an image of the Antichrist as noted in Revelation 13. And that image in the future temple will trigger the Great Tribulation.

Also, Christ said to John that "the time is an hand". Yet many assume that the events of the first five seals are in the future. But all one has to do is compare those events with what is described in the Olivet Discourse, and see that those events began immediately after Revelation was completed. For example, false messiahs (Christs) began to appear on the scene almost immediately, and have continued to do so. The Antichrist will be the ultimate false messiah

What is in the future are the events of the 6th and 7th seals.

The seals were opened after the shout of command "come up here" which some of us see as a picture of the rapture

Whether or not you understand this the doctrine as presented by your Berean Scholars are those expounded by John Nelson Darby

Precious friend, never 'studied' Darby, but my understanding is based, as
presented in Great GRACE Departure, By The Scriptures Rightly Divided.
I believe All The Scriptures [ pre-trib Mystery ] were From God, through
Paul [ not Darby/any man ], to me, to depart to heaven [ my Glorious hope ].

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

And, ALL The Scriptures, for Israel, were God's Prophetic Word to them, warning
of Judgment, and, then, At His Second Coming, He Will Save All Israel, and they
Will go into the earthly kingdom [ their Glorious hope ].

Of course, that part was just the 17th part Conclusion, summarizing the
previous 16 parts that I had developed [ without Darby/any man ], with
The Blessed Teacher, according to Bible study Rules!:

In case you may wish to check into these, let me know, in this
Outline:

(1A) Peace With God! "Receiving" The Holy Spirit For "understanding"?
(1B) 1A "E - X - P - A - N - D - E - D" For Further "Clarification"?

(2a) Which Bible: AV or, Any "newer modern version" will suffice?
(2b) AV And God's Excellent "study" Rules!?

(3a) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - "Brief" Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?

(4) Which "Gospel!" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?

(5) Great Tribulation? or, *tribulations/Great Grace Departure!?*

(6) Pre-TOJT Grace Departure "Expectations!"?

(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?

(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking for Whom! or, "signs"?

(9) He "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"

(10) "Day Of Christ!" Rightly
Divided from {RDf}: "The Day Of The LORD"?

(11) Confidence in death/resurrection!, Or, in living/glorification!!?

(12) Christ Will Return "Without Warning!"?

(13) The Two "Trumps" Of God!, In His "Age Of Grace!"?

(14) Meeting Him "In The Air!" to Heaven!! vs

(15) Preparation For Judgment!?

(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?
-----------------------------------------

Precious friend, thanks again - I have Greatly appreciated this
cordial / respectful discussion about God's Important Matters!

As always, please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

View attachment 259396

Nobody of any note preached pre-tribulation rapture before Darby

That is ok.

Jew and Gentile are not recognised in the church but one new man. And we all will go to meet the Lord in the air when He comes. BUT.

There is still Jews, nobody considers them, the devil is very interested in them.

They are the seed of Abraham too, according to the flesh. They are not the church but they are the seed of Abraham and God has made promises to them, to them is promised the ends of the earth. We are promised heaven, we are not promised to inherit the earth.

ALL THE PROMISES OF GOD are amen and yea IN CHRIST.
And IN HIM there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
How can there be one set of promises for Jews in Christ and another set of promises for non-Jews in Christ.

Cordially and respectFULLY Disagree :

Paul, our apostle of Grace, preached Christ According To The Revelation Of The
Mystery, Which Closes With our Great GRACE Departure, before God's Prophetic
Judgment Begins.
+
Borrowed from 'part 8' of my 17-part study:

We, The Body Of Christ, are Specifically taught, By him, to, by faith, be "looking,
patiently waiting, and watching For our Blessed Hope, Christ The Holy One!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13 AV)

Not "for The Wicked one", as [ a 'Noted one' ] Paul's Expectation Was our
"Gathering Unto Christ" Was Imminent in his day and ours, by his own
statement:


Plus, 'noted one' Paul taught us "...we walk by faith, not by sight..." (2Co 5:7)
+

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

to Israel, "Jews looking for signs!" Sight, Correct?:

While, on the other hand, in prophecy, Christ taught Israel, specifically
to be watching for the "abomination of desolation" [ The Wicked one ]
and "the signs of the times" when their "redemption draweth nigh":


Again, only Confusion results when Mixing Up prophecy and The Mystery!
-------------------------------------
Thus, I believe Paul was "of note," Chosen By Christ, long before Darby.

Amen.

Cordially and respectFULLY Disagree :

Paul, our apostle of Grace, preached Christ According To The Revelation Of The
Mystery, Which Closes With our Great GRACE Departure, before God's Prophetic
Judgment Begins.
+
Borrowed from 'part 8' of my 17-part study:

We, The Body Of Christ, are Specifically taught, By him, to, by faith, be "looking,
patiently waiting, and watching For our Blessed Hope, Christ The Holy One!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13 AV)

Not "for The Wicked one", as [ a 'Noted one' ] Paul's Expectation Was our
"Gathering Unto Christ" Was Imminent in his day and ours, by his own
statement:


Plus, 'noted one' Paul taught us "...we walk by faith, not by sight..." (2Co 5:7)
+

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

to Israel, "Jews looking for signs!" Sight, Correct?:

While, on the other hand, in prophecy, Christ taught Israel, specifically
to be watching for the "abomination of desolation" [ The Wicked one ]
and "the signs of the times" when their "redemption draweth nigh":


Again, only Confusion results when Mixing Up prophecy and The Mystery!
-------------------------------------
Thus, I believe Paul was "of note," Chosen By Christ, long before Darby.

Amen.

Ah engagement.
I see that Paul's gospel ends with our gathering to meet the Lord but I dispute that tribulation, the great tribulation is God's prophetic judgement or God's wrath.

They shall deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, in the world you will have tribulation. Paul teaches "through great tribulation must we enter the k9ingdom of God"

Tribulation comes from man, from the world. The great tribulation is the great end-time persecution we are warned will come.

Whether we are in peace or in persecution [perhaps even more so] we will be watching and waiting and looking for our Lord.
"He is imminent" so is the Antichrist imminent. Antichrist arrives first chronologically, He [Paul tells us] will oppose everything called god or that is worshipped as god. That is a program of systematic eradication, he will set himself to destroy all religion ... we have seen his types.

When he has to all intents finished that job he will march into the temple to declare himself that he is God. and there meet His end.

All this must happen before the coming of the Lord.

I say this

When our Lord was speaking generally to the people He is addressing the Jews, but on those occasions when He is speaking to His disciples [as at Olivet] His message is to the church.

To the Jew first, except at the end, where they are second?

I've allus mused upon that one, it is what is called a circular statement. if they was 1st now they are last, if they are now last they will be 1st ... and so on.