rapture cordial 'only' discussion

Nehemiah6 · Dec 30, 2023

But that is NOT how Christ comes for His Bride. He comes PERSONALLY and "in the air", and the Resurrection/Rapture takes place "in the twinkling of an eye". And the saints meet Him "in the clouds".

In contrast, when Christ comes back to earth at His Second Coming, all the inhabitants of the world know that He is coming and they weep and wail because He comes in wrath. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7) These "clouds" are the clouds of saints and angels surrounding Christ and giving the appearance of clouds. See Rev 19.

Evmur · Dec 30, 2023

Stan_the_Man said:

It's most likely going to be mid-trib - but definitely not pre-trib

Supposedly, the first 3 years of the anti-christ will be somewhat peaceful which kinda makes sense because he could not take over the world by having a press conference saying "Hi, I'm the anti-christ and I'm here to deceive as many as possible in to going to hell!"

He's probably going to be someone who appears to be this great humanitarian that everyone loves including communist China, Russia, as well as the followers of islam. The US will probably be happy to turn over our national sovereignty to the one world government when the time comes depending on which globalist is in the Whitehouse at the time. All the POTUS has to do is sign an executive order and that'll be that! (Americans aren't going to rebel so no need to worry about any of that)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)

Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed

This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power

Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.

falling away = rebellion for sure.

CS1 · Dec 30, 2023

I see the Rapture in the word of God and God has done so even in the Old Testament. Supernature Salvation over and over again.

I believe the Dead in Christ will first as the word teaches because those who died in faith in Christ will be the first to see the Promise of God and HIS word fulfilled. I do not know if I will be alive when the Rapture happens BUT I do believe if I die I will experience resurrection when my Lord Calls me forth.

Evmur · Dec 30, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Well His coming is to reign. THAT'S what He comes to do. His first job is to gather His people who are scattered among the nations. He will also gather ALL Jews to Israel.

WHY? why this gathering? we to the clouds and the Jews to Israel. It is to protect them from the wrath that is coming.

The tribulation is past, it's over, it's finished. The returning Lord finished it in the temple when He slew Antichrist by the brightness of His coming and the breath of His nostrils. No more Antichrist, no more Beast, no more mark of the beast, no more persecution.

The tribulation was persecution.
Matt. 24.9.
"They shall deliver you up to tribulation and you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake"

The tribulation comes from the world. "In the world you will have tribulation"

The wrath of God is God's vengeance upon those who persecuted His people.

The_old_guy · Dec 30, 2023

GRACE_ambassador said:

post-trib vs pre-trib

From our previous discussion:

Precious friend, appreciate your Very Kind words.

I think we should begin with a foundation first [ rule 1 BSR ], and see if we
agree, or if there is going to be a problem, ok? After all, without the Correct
foundation, the "building will crumble," eh? ie:

God Has Two Different programs:

God's earthly Prophecy / Covenants / Law Program, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation) Timeframe?:

Scripture # 1:

"Then shall the King say unto them on His Right Hand, Come, ye blessed

of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation

of the world" (Matthew 25:34)

Scripture # 2:

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and Redeemed His

people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of His

servant David; As He Spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have

been since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70)

Scripture # 3:

"Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all

things, which God Hath Spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets

since the world began." (Acts 3:21)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!) Another Timeframe?:

Scripture # 4:

"According as He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation

of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before

Him In Love" (Ephesians 1:4)

Scripture # 5:

"Who Hath Saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not

according to our works, but According To His Own Purpose and

Grace, Which Was Given us In Christ Jesus before the world began"

(2 Timothy 1:9)

Please pardon The [ Extra ] Scriptures For The Body Of Christ, to
Complete 'the Important point' of This Solid Foundation!:

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”

(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

-------------------------------------------------

Thus, God Has Two Different programs For Two Different 'groups',
with TWO different 'Timeframes', Ending in Different destinations!

Precious friend, @Evmur, what think ye?

to be continued?...

To summarize, who are the two groups, and what are the two timeframes?

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 30, 2023

Evmur said:

Precious friend, of course your 'one coming where Every eye will see Him'
is only for one program? I am so sorry. { asking Way Too Many questions For
The Truth? }

Possibly, by the end of this study, we may be closer to seeing the other
'Secret' [ where, In pre-trib, only The Body Of Christ will see Him ] Coming
in God's Other program? Please Be Encouraged And Edified, as we
continue { patiently } to the finish line... :

Program One: God's Heavenly "Revelation Of His Mystery",
Containing Grace For The Body Of Christ:

Summed up, so far: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming,
3) who does He Bring with Him, 4) Why/What first Purpose,
for those 'He brought' and those 'alive and remaining'...

Extra, extra: Did you know that God's "Dispensation of Grace" Opened
With The First "Trump [ Voice ] Of God (Jesus) in Acts 9:4, so little wonder
that The Last Trump of God, Closing This Amazing "Dispensation Of Grace"
Would Be Something Specific [ as was 'Lazarus' ] Like?:

"My Body", Or "My Church"?:

"[ ↑ Specific ↑ Entity ↑ ] Come Up Hither!":

+
...(5) Second Purpose: Does CHRIST [ our Bless Hope ] “Gather His Body”
To Himself, "meeting them in the air", to Take them On UP To Heaven?
What Saith [ A Multitude Of Plain And Clear ] Scriptures?:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,

and By our Gathering Together Unto Him...The Day Of Christ...That Day

shall not come, except there come a falling away [ The Departure ] first..."

(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

+

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also

bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Corinthians 15:49)

+
Our own 'apostle of Grace Is a ''Type of our Mystery Program rapture"?:

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, ( whether in

the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell:

God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

(2 Corinthians 12:2)

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were

dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with

hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly

desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

(2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

+

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath

Blessed us with All Spiritual Blessings in heavenly places in Christ"

(Ephesians 1:3)

"The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may

know what is The Hope of His Calling, and What The Riches of The

Glory of His Inheritance in the saints,...

And What Is The Exceeding Greatness Of His Power to us-ward who

believe, According To The Working Of His Mighty Power, Which He

Wrought In Christ, when He Raised Him from the dead, and set Him

At His Own Right Hand in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 1:18-20)

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together

in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:6)

"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we

look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: " (Philippians 3:20)

"And The Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and Will

Preserve me Unto His heavenly kingdom: to Whom Be Glory

for ever and ever. Amen. " (2 Timothy 4:18)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Program 2: God's Other program, including The Second Prophesied
Coming For the earthly nation Of Israel:

Sum thus far: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming, 3) who does He
Bring with Him? Wait! He left Heaven with armies, but, What's This?:

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their

armies, gathered together to make war against Him That

Sat on the horse, and against His army." (Revelation 19:19)

(4) Is Christ, In Prophecy, Coming To earth With Only ONE army, “All Of His

holy angels,” In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations?:

"When The Son of man shall come in His Glory, and

all the holy angels with Him..." (Matthew 25:31)...

[ What pray tell, will happen to the [ pre-trib ] Heavenly Body Of Christ?
Won't Christ Assign us our Heavenly positions of 'ruling and reigning'
During His Descent, Before He "Comes All The Way To the earth," with
Only One army? ]

..."And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and

He That sat upon him Was Called Faithful and True, and In

Righteousness He doth judge and make war...

...And out of His Mouth goeth a sharp Sword, that with it He should

smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He

treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and Wrath of Almighty God."

(Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) How was the Prophesied "gathering" accomplished?:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds

with great power and glory. And then shall He send His angels,

and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from

the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

(Mark 13:26-27 cp "with Another trumpet" Matthew 24:30-31)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑ ? ↓ ↑ ? ↑

Wait! Don't tell me: the "seventh angel trumpet was The Last"
according to post-trib teaching? Or, was it?
--------------------------------------
Intermediate Conclusion: How is it to be reckoned that:

1) "Christ gathering His Body To Himself [ 'catching up' rapture ] In The

"Meeting In The Air" [ Heaven-Bound! ] Closing The Mystery Program

Of God...

is the Same thing as?:

2) ... "angels gathering the elect" in God's Prophetic Program, going
[ with No 'catching up" to Heaven, but: ] Into The Millennial kingdom,

earth-Bound?

Seems to me this is going to Be Very Problematic in the Judgments
to come, Next Time, as we further run this marathon to the finish...

Amen.

Stan_the_Man said:

Evmur said:

So, precious friend, @Evmur, are you switching from post- to mid-trib???

Until next time...Please Be Encouraged In Truth!

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 30, 2023

The_old_guy said:

Brief sum:

Group 1 = The { Mystery } Body Of Christ, raptured to Heaven. pre-trib
before Daniel's 70th week, the 7 years Prophesied for:

Group 2 = the nation of Israel, in The Time Of Jacob's Trouble, after which occurs
The Second Prophesied [ no rapture ] Coming Of Christ 'All The Way' To the earth.

hope this helps...

Stan_the_Man · Dec 31, 2023

GRACE_ambassador said:

The Lord has a long track record of rescuing His true faithful ones from the devil's destruction so I see no reason why the Lord won't take His true followers from the earth sometime after the anti-christ is revealed to the world but before the anti-christ starts his world wars that result in billions of deaths.

We are IN Christ, in a better covenant based on better promises so I see no reason why the Lord won't do what he's always done which is supernaturally protect His faithful.

Problem is, there are warnings the Lord gives concerning many falling away from the faith and there are many false teachers that will deceive many. It's not being negative to remind people of this because God's warnings are intended to be a heads up so we can know what the enemy is doing so we don't get caught in the devil's traps!

JaumeJ · Dec 31, 2023

Our Father is going to call His children out of the Great Harlot, and, I would think, from her daughters. The great falling away seems to be already in progress.
Those with understanding will be few and will help many durng the seven years. They will not accept the mark of the beast and they will be executed by beheading.
Those with understanding would necessarily be true believers, right? Otherwise they could not be in a position to help others. Help, I believe, will be sharing the Light of Jesus Yeshua.
All who believe we will be zapped up before the tribulation, or hal-way through it, will most likely fall away. I pray not, but many will.

Stan_the_Man · Dec 31, 2023

Oh there's going to be a catching away of the church, it's just a matter of when.

And, there's plenty of books and videos here for people to learn from so those getting saved after the catching away will have materials to learn from but most of all - the Holy Spirit will be here teaching them.

The Lord is fully capable to handling things. Besides if there was not a catching away of the church, this does not mean real Christians will fall away because of that because real believers stick with Jesus regardless of what comes their way.

I've had people pull guns on me numerous times in my life and I was ready to go home to be with the Lord and had already made up my mind I was not only ready to go be with Jesus, I was really kinda hoping to get to leave right then!

This is one way we can know if we are where we need to be with the Lord is if we are faced with certain death right now - would we be excited to leave right then?

If the answer is no and one has fear, something is really wrong and that person needs to do some fasting and prayers and find out why they have fear because God has not given us a spirit of fear and Jesus said the fearful will have their part in the lake that burns with fire.

So either way - catching away, or somebody kills us just because we are Christians - we should be sticking with Jesus!

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 31, 2023

Stan_the_Man said:

1) 'one coming where Every eye will see Him' is only for one program = post-trib?

2) where there are TWO 'raptures' [mid-trib] of two witnesses and 144,000? and:
Then, the Body of Christ, after these, at the second coming = post-trib? Or:

3) Pre-trib, The Body Of Christ 'Departs', According To Rightly Dividing God's
Two Different Programs, as we have { and will } continue to see in the finish
of this study thread?

Stan_the_Man said:

Interesting, in Scriptures, Paul tells us, "in the latter times" of This Grace Age:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times

some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing

spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1Ti 4:1)

So, which is it? man's 'many', or The Bible's some?

Amen.

Stan_the_Man · Dec 31, 2023

GRACE_ambassador said:

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 31, 2023

Stan_the_Man said:

Yes, that is true for { What Christ, on earth, Told them } Israel, In prophecy and Covenants [ future "Time of Jacob's Trouble" ], however,...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

...Today we are Under Grace [ In The "Revelation Of The Mystery ], and What
Christ, From Heaven, Told Paul, for us, The Body of Christ is Different.:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times

some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing

spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1Ti 4:1)

Thus, No contradiction, or confusion, Unless God's Two Different programs
are blended / homogenized / conflated together, being Mixed Up, eh?

Amen.

Evmur · Jan 1, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

Precious friend, of course your 'one coming where Every eye will see Him'
is only for one program? I am so sorry. { asking Way Too Many questions For
The Truth? }

Possibly, by the end of this study, we may be closer to seeing the other
'Secret' [ where, In pre-trib, only The Body Of Christ will see Him ] Coming
in God's Other program? Please Be Encouraged And Edified, as we
continue { patiently } to the finish line... :

Program One: God's Heavenly "Revelation Of His Mystery",
Containing Grace For The Body Of Christ:

Summed up, so far: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming,
3) who does He Bring with Him, 4) Why/What first Purpose,
for those 'He brought' and those 'alive and remaining'...

Extra, extra: Did you know that God's "Dispensation of Grace" Opened
With The First "Trump [ Voice ] Of God (Jesus) in Acts 9:4, so little wonder
that The Last Trump of God, Closing This Amazing "Dispensation Of Grace"
Would Be Something Specific [ as was 'Lazarus' ] Like?:

"My Body", Or "My Church"?:

"[ ↑ Specific ↑ Entity ↑ ] Come Up Hither!":

+
...(5) Second Purpose: Does CHRIST [ our Bless Hope ] “Gather His Body”
To Himself, "meeting them in the air", to Take them On UP To Heaven?
What Saith [ A Multitude Of Plain And Clear ] Scriptures?:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,

and By our Gathering Together Unto Him...The Day Of Christ...That Day

shall not come, except there come a falling away [ The Departure ] first..."

(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

+

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also

bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Corinthians 15:49)

+
Our own 'apostle of Grace Is a ''Type of our Mystery Program rapture"?:

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, ( whether in

the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell:

God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

(2 Corinthians 12:2)

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were

dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with

hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly

desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

(2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

+

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath

Blessed us with All Spiritual Blessings in heavenly places in Christ"

(Ephesians 1:3)

"The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may

know what is The Hope of His Calling, and What The Riches of The

Glory of His Inheritance in the saints,...

And What Is The Exceeding Greatness Of His Power to us-ward who

believe, According To The Working Of His Mighty Power, Which He

Wrought In Christ, when He Raised Him from the dead, and set Him

At His Own Right Hand in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 1:18-20)

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together

in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:6)

"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we

look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: " (Philippians 3:20)

"And The Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and Will

Preserve me Unto His heavenly kingdom: to Whom Be Glory

for ever and ever. Amen. " (2 Timothy 4:18)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Program 2: God's Other program, including The Second Prophesied
Coming For the earthly nation Of Israel:

Sum thus far: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming, 3) who does He
Bring with Him? Wait! He left Heaven with armies, but, What's This?:

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their

armies, gathered together to make war against Him That

Sat on the horse, and against His army." (Revelation 19:19)

(4) Is Christ, In Prophecy, Coming To earth With Only ONE army, “All Of His

holy angels,” In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations?:

"When The Son of man shall come in His Glory, and

all the holy angels with Him..." (Matthew 25:31)...

[ What pray tell, will happen to the [ pre-trib ] Heavenly Body Of Christ?
Won't Christ Assign us our Heavenly positions of 'ruling and reigning'
During His Descent, Before He "Comes All The Way To the earth," with
Only One army? ]

..."And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and

He That sat upon him Was Called Faithful and True, and In

Righteousness He doth judge and make war...

...And out of His Mouth goeth a sharp Sword, that with it He should

smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He

treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and Wrath of Almighty God."

(Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) How was the Prophesied "gathering" accomplished?:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds

with great power and glory. And then shall He send His angels,

and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from

the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

(Mark 13:26-27 cp "with Another trumpet" Matthew 24:30-31)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑ ? ↓ ↑ ? ↑

Wait! Don't tell me: the "seventh angel trumpet was The Last"
according to post-trib teaching? Or, was it?
--------------------------------------
Intermediate Conclusion: How is it to be reckoned that:

1) "Christ gathering His Body To Himself [ 'catching up' rapture ] In The

"Meeting In The Air" [ Heaven-Bound! ] Closing The Mystery Program

Of God...

is the Same thing as?:

2) ... "angels gathering the elect" in God's Prophetic Program, going
[ with No 'catching up" to Heaven, but: ] Into The Millennial kingdom,

earth-Bound?

Seems to me this is going to Be Very Problematic in the Judgments
to come, Next Time, as we further run this marathon to the finish...

Amen.

So, precious friend, @Evmur, are you switching from post- to mid-trib???

Until next time...Please Be Encouraged In Truth!

more correctly stated as post tribulation/pre God's wrath.

I could say so much about the book of Revelations, some of which many would not like.
1. yes I believe it is scripture

But we must ask ourselves an honest question, we must ask why it is if you have 100 people well trained in orthodoxy, theologians and al read Revelations with a view to study it, how come you will have 100 differing interpretations?

W

Evmur · Jan 1, 2024

Evmur said:

more correctly stated as post tribulation/pre God's wrath.

I could say so much about the book of Revelations, some of which many would not like.
1. yes I believe it is scripture

But we must ask ourselves an honest question, we must ask why it is if you have 100 people well trained in orthodoxy, theologians and al read Revelations with a view to study it, how come you will have 100 differing interpretations?

... I just enlarged upon this but it broke the darned 5 minute rule and has gone into cyber oblivion

Evmur · Jan 1, 2024

Evmur said:

The answer is Revelation is a sealed book [in large part] just like Daniel was sealed to the Jews. There is much to learn in doctrine and devotion but the prophecies are sealed.

You SEE the seals being opened by the Lamb.

Revelations is a misnomer the book is called The Revelation of Jesus Christ, that is to say His appearing, His coming, His manifestation. The book is about what will take place then and after. After the church is gone, it concerns the millennial saints the Jews who reign with Christ during the 1, 000 years and more particularly it deals with the first 7 years which is the mopping up of the aftermath of the beast being slain and the armies that came up with him to Jerusalem when he invaded the temple, and all those who had received his mark..

You can't read the church in there as being on earth. It is about the wrath of God and the church is gone.

That's why lay men and theologians alike cannot come to any agreement or consensus about The Revelation.

So I say it is best when discussing end-time prophecy it is best to go by the plain and open scripture of which there is super abundance of.

GRACE_ambassador · Jan 1, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

Stan_the_Man said:

Evmur said:

GRACE_ambassador said:

Evmur said:

Thanks for the clarification, better late than never, eh?

your correctly-stated position, out of six Confusing positions

:

pre-trib, 1/4-trib, mid-trib, 3/4-trib, post-trib/pre-wrath, post-trib/after wrath,
Correct?

To re-name, then, our cordial discussion of:

pre-trib versus post-trib / pre-wrath [ Whew!

Getting more Complex? ] issue:

So, continuing Scriptures / Clarification of God's Great Grace Departure,
please see Next post...

GRACE_ambassador · Jan 1, 2024

pre-trib rapture! Versus post-trib / pre-wrath rapture?

In God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, He Has:

Program One [ P1 ]:
God's Heavenly "Revelation Of His Mystery", Containing Grace / Pre-trib
Departure [ Gathering "To Himself" ], At the Heavenly 'Trump Of God',
Christ, As The Head Of, and For :

The Heavenly Body Of Christ:

Sum: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming, 3) who He Brings with
Him, ...Extra: Two "Trumps Of God" Opening and Closing Grace...
4) Why/What Purpose1: resurrection/change, (5) Purpose2: Christ
“Gathers His Body To Himself, to Go [ Taking His Body UP ] To Heaven!

+

6) Judgment Seat Of Christ, For His Heavenly Body:

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought

thy brother? for we shall all stand before The Judgment Seat Of Christ.

For It Is Written, As I Live, Saith The Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,

and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall

give account of himself To God." (Romans 14:10-12)

+

"For we must all appear before The Judgment Seat Of Christ; that every

one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath

done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall

receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers

together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's Building.

According to the Grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise

masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth

thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth Thereupon.

For other foundation can no man lay than That Is Laid, Which Is

Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones,

wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The

Day Shall Declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire

shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall

receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer

loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

(1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

+ compare Body Of Christ Extras, for further Clarification!:

(1 Corinthians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 6:20; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the Grace assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To Christ Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27)

Q: Is this not When the "one New man" is Completely Ready, as a bride?,

or, Scripturally Speaking, "The bridegroom"?

(7b) ...And, Then Christ Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In The Heavenly Kingdom, Where we Live Forever And Ever!
Amen! (1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 AV)

Q:
Is not this the time The Father Can Be Ready to Present the
Prophetic [P2] "bride" of Revelation ( Israel ), To The groom,
The Body ( of The Mystery [P1] ) to Consummate
"The Marriage of The Lamb" At The End Time Of The

"New Heavens, and New earth"?

End pre-trib Great Grace Departure To GloryLand! Clarification...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Program Two [ P2 ]:
God's Other program, including The Second Prophesied Coming with
All angels "gathering the elect" at the earthly trumpet of Christ, As
The Son of man, The King of / and For:

the earthly nation of Israel

Sum: 1) Who is Coming, 2) How is He Coming, 3) who ( plural ) leaves
Heaven with Him, 4) who ( singular ) arrives [ All The to earth ] with
Him, 5) another trumpet, angels Sent to gather the elect

+

(6) Judgment of the earthly Nations”:

"When the Son of man shall come in His Glory, and all the holy angels

with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His Glory: And before

Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one

from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And He shall set the sheep on His Right Hand, but the goats on the Left.

Then shall the King say unto them on His Right Hand, Come, ye blessed

of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation

of the world:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave

Me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed

Me: I was sick, and ye visited Me: I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.

Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, Lord, when saw we Thee

an hungred, and fed Thee? or thirsty, and gave Thee drink? When saw

we Thee a stranger, and took Thee in? or naked, and clothed Thee?

Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And The

King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch

as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have

done it unto Me.

Then shall He say also unto them on the Left Hand, Depart from me,

ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave Me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye

gave Me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in: naked, and

ye clothed Me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited Me not.

Then shall they also answer Him, saying, Lord, when saw we Thee an

hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did

not minister unto Thee?

Then shall He Answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as

ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me. And these

shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into Life

Eternal." (Matthew 25:31-46 AV)

End Clarification comparison of:

P2: Prophetic earthly post-trib / pre-wrath rapture gathering

not the same As:

P1: The Mystery 7-years Prior Pre-trib Great Grace Departure To Heaven!

Correct?:
Precious friend, @Evmur, { + all other 'inside / post' tribbers /
/ no rapturists }:

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, and Comforted In
Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

More [ from Much better 'writers' than humble old me, just
doin' the best I can ], if you wish:

Evidence For Pre-trib Rapture
+
The Judgment Seat Of Christ
+
With Him - Glories Of Life To Come

Evmur · Jan 2, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

Whether or not you understand this the doctrine as presented by your Berean Scholars are those expounded by John Nelson Darby. He is rightly called the father of Dispensationalism. People make a fuss about that but what Darby called Dispensations were previously taught as Covenants or Economies. I have no quarrel with that.

But I did find a peculiarity with his doctrine.

For I read that Darby in comparing the great end-time prophecies of the OT with the end-time prophecies relating to the Church saw at once that there was no correlation. The prophecies foretold completely different events effecting different people i.e. the Jews vs the Church.

All up to now I can concur. No problem.

But I found it astonishing that from this Darby concluded that the end-times were gloomy indeed for the Jews but glorious for the church. The Jews [according to Darby] go through the Great Tribulation while the Church wings her way to glory.

How could Darby read Micah 4 and Isaiah 2, 9 and 35 and fail to see the glorious future of Israel prior to the millennial age.? and then read the solemn warnings of Christ and His apostles to the Church concerning the end-times. They are indeed different to being opposite except it is plain that Israel is in peace while the church is in turmoil and anguish.

In Jeremiah 31 God speaks clearly it is not the man who suffers birth pangs but the woman. Israel will be at peace.

That is everywhere in the OT.

Evmur · Jan 2, 2024

GRACE_ambassador said:

pre-trib rapture! Versus post-trib / pre-wrath rapture?
The confusion arises [imv] from a failure to distinguish between Tribulation which is from man and the world and Wrath which is from God.
Matt 24. 9
then shall they deliver you up to tribulation and shall kill you ...

rapture cordial 'only' discussion

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