Does God Know From All Eternity Who Will Die Having Rejected Sound Doctrine?

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
Yes!

If someone was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, that person could never have been a child of disobedience, nor a child of wrath.

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
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To me, that reads something into the text. I think all it is saying is that wheat and tares look alot alike.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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John146 said:
The future is not a set thing to know. God has given man choices, and works in and through those choices to bring about his desired end as set forth in the scriptures.
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And? Did you read the post to which I responded?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
Dying for the sins of the world, and offering salvation for everyone, and not everyone receiving that salvation that God offered, is not a failure on his behalf, but man's failure to believe the gospel. Yes?
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ByTheGraceOfGod said:
Everyone I know who has rejected sound doctrine has done so through their own fault; it is impossible for God to save someone who chooses to die in rebellion and obstinacy towards God.
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i will say this:

whom He saves, He truly saves, and does not fail to save.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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posthuman said:
what does scripture say, how does scripture describe this?
scripture describes Him knowing His sheep and searching them out, and knowing who are not His sheep. scripture describes His sheep knowing His voice, hearing it and responding - and those who are not His sheep being unable to hear, specifically because they are not His sheep. scripture describes Him finding His lost sheep, laying them. on His shoulder and carrying them home, rejoicing.
scripture does not describe wandering ownerless goats taking it upon themselves to turn themselves into sheep and choose their own Shepherd.
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@PaulThomson, the references you requested, sir:

  • scripture describes Christ knowing His sheep
    • John 10:14, 10:27
  • scripture describes Christ searching for His sheep
    • Matthew 18:12, Luke 15:4
  • scripture describes Christ knowing who is not His sheep
    • John 6:64, John 10:26
  • scripture describes Christ's sheep knowing His voice, hearing and responding
    • John 10:3-6, 10:14, 10:27, 10:16
  • scripture describes those who are not His sheep being unable to hear/believe Him
    • John 8:47, John 10:26
  • scripture describes being unable to hear/believe explicitly because they are not His sheep
    • John 8:47, John 10:26
      • hence indisputably being "not His sheep" precedes unbelief, and being "His sheep" precedes belief - a clear cause-effect paradigm is established: being His sheep is a cause not an effect.
  • scripture describes Christ finding His sheep
    • Matthew 18:13-14, Luke 15:5
  • scripture describes Christ carrying His sheep home on His shoulder, rejoicing
    • Luke 15:5-6

crazy you made me do this.

i thought these were all very recognizable and well-known testimony of the gospels.
wishing you the best of luck with your reading of the new testament.

i guess from now on i should not presume people are familiar with the Bible in the BDF, lol
 
posthuman

posthuman

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ByTheGraceOfGod said:
God does not save those who choose to die while rejecting sound doctrine.
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those whom God saves do not choose death.

salvation is real, and trustworthy, and a supernatural act of God which is transformative in a human being.

He does not fail.
 
B

ByTheGraceOfGod

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posthuman said:
those whom God saves do not choose death.

salvation is real, and trustworthy, and a supernatural act of God which is transformative in a human being.

He does not fail.
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If a person dies while rejecting sound doctrine, this person is not saved.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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ByTheGraceOfGod said:
If a person dies while rejecting sound doctrine, this person is not saved.
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​
if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.​
(Philippians 3:15)​
​
this passage makes no guarantees of precisely "when" God will persuade all His children of every truth.

salvation is by grace through faith, not through having all knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

:coffee::unsure:
 
B

ByTheGraceOfGod

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posthuman said:
​
if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.​
(Philippians 3:15)​
​
this passage makes no guarantees of precisely "when" God will persuade all His children of every truth.

salvation is by grace through faith, not through having all knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

:coffee::unsure:
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All of God's children believe sound doctrine.
 
B

ByTheGraceOfGod

Banned
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posthuman said:
​
if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.​
(Philippians 3:15)​
​
this passage makes no guarantees of precisely "when" God will persuade all His children of every truth.

salvation is by grace through faith, not through having all knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

:coffee::unsure:
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Do you know what the punishment is for those who die while choosing to reject sound doctrine?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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ByTheGraceOfGod said:
Do you know what the punishment is for those who die while choosing to reject sound doctrine?
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sorry, i am still trying to figure out what is the punishment for not being brilliant enough to fully understand all perfect doctrine..
 
B

ByTheGraceOfGod

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posthuman said:
sorry, i am still trying to figure out what is the punishment for not being brilliant enough to fully understand all perfect doctrine..
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EXPERIENCING ETERNAL HELL FIRE IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR THOSE REJECTING SOUND DOCTRINE AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#435
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
EXPERIENCING ETERNAL HELL FIRE IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR THOSE REJECTING SOUND DOCTRINE AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH!
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Do you have a scripture. Eternal life is given to someone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no believer who understands every doctrine perfectly.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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ByTheGraceOfGod said:
EXPERIENCING ETERNAL HELL FIRE IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR THOSE REJECTING SOUND DOCTRINE AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH!
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pretty important huh.

given this it would be natural to ask you whether you are an open theist..?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
Dying for the sins of the world, and offering salvation for everyone, and not everyone receiving that salvation that God offered, is not a failure on his behalf, but man's failure to believe the gospel. Yes?
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yes. but whoever He saves, He saves to the uttermost.
salvation is through our putting our trust in Him, and that trust is never misplaced when it's in Him, is my point.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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posthuman

posthuman

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PaulThomson said:
Saul of Tarsus was a lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was not one of Jesus' sheep, because He was not listening to Jesus
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He calls "His sheep"

He doesn't call random sheep that don't belong to Him and then claim ownership once they're in His pen.

God is not a cattle rustler.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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PaulThomson said:
But Saul became one of Jesus' sheep when He put his trust in the Lord.
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wow, have you not read the conversion of Saul/Paul?

it was totally outside the will of Saul. God literally smacked him off his horse and informed him that he belonged to Him.

Paul didn't respond to some Finny-esque "altar call" - - God reached out and took him for His own.

please see Acts 9 forthwith.

so is this God poaching sheep that aren't His?
or God finding His own sheep which has always been His own sheep, pulling it out of the thicket it was lost in & carying it home on His shoulder, rejoicing?
 
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