Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

It's not automatic. If you sin after you're initially saved, you must repent to he forgiven. You can lose your salvation.

Out of context scriptures you've cited. You can think what you like but the scriptural facts remain that salvation can be lost. A casual study of the Hebrew letter will bear that out. The newly converted Hebrews were warned about the dangers of renouncing Christ and embracing again their old religious beliefs.

Salvation cannot be lost. If it could, it would mean that Christ's offering was insufficient to bring forth eternal salvation but only
a transient salvation.

What do you think these verses mean:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

By mentioning Hebrews, I suspect that you are referring to Hebrews 6. To understand the verses in question, read verse 9.
It clearly demonstrates that for those saved, the preceding verses do not apply.

I understand what you're saying 100%. I used to think the exact same way. I just couldn't wrap my mind around that point, if I willingly choose to put my faith in Christ and am saved, does He then remove my free will? Could I not choose to stop following Him, as crazy and impossible as I feel that would be, am I no longer allowed? I felt just like you about it, it didn't make sense to lo longer have that option open to me, even though I could never imagine making that decision.

The thing I've realized it it is not our choice, it can't be, if it had anything to do with our choice that would make our choice a work would it not? If it is ANYTHING "we do", then that becomes a requirement and something you have to do to be saved, and yet we are told there is nothing we can "do" to save ourselves. Right? I want to be very careful here and not try to seem, as though I'm saying that our decisions have nothing to do with it, as if the two are disconnected, because they can't be. Love is not love with no choice, and we are very clearly told in scripture that we have to choose. We are also told that repentance is is a gift we are given by God, we can take no credit for our decision to repent, or I should say honestly say that "I" can take no credit for it in my life.

I come from a place where I went to the front of the church when called, I made that decision to "give my life to Jesus" in front of everyone. I even went later with them and was baptized as well to seal it, yet was not saved and did not know Him. However once I hit the hardest trial of my life, so far, and was brought to my knees in complete defeat, at a time after I was told and thought I was a Christian and saved, I hit my knees in unbelief thinking there was no power in that "Christian stuff" and that it didn't help me at all in my last 2 years of suffering. I just hit the end of any kind of belief in my own power and my ability to handle my problems. I saw my efforts for the futile attempt they truly were and couldn't do it anymore. I didn't even realize what was happening in that moment, but I was being granted repentance. I woke up the next day all new. He open my eye's to what happen throughout that day brought my to truth, and has been leading me these 10 years since. I could testify all day long but I'm trying to keep it as short as possible. I'm just making the point that when I thought it was my decision I was not saved, yet when I had no clue what was happening I was saved. I know it does not happen this way for everyone and some people may have really been saved when they repeated the sinners prayer, I'm just sharing that I do not believe it is "our decision" at all that saves us, even though it may very well play a part in our reconciliation, it does not depend or require it in any way. It sounds better when I just say that we get no glory for it. God gets ALL glory for our salvation right?

I know we Christians like to clash on it's either "this" or "that", but I believe that God working His sovereignty with/within/over our "free" will is one of the greatest mysteries of creation. I do not believe that we can lose our salvation anymore, just like I don't believe it's our choice that saves us. Jesus loses NONE the Father gives Him, if they left us they were never of us, He never knew them. It's a deep question and I understand your thinking, but it's so much bigger than just "us" it's all about HIM.

There are very clear warnings in the Hebrew letter in 6 and 10 directed to them but is also relevant to us today. You can lose your salvation.

There are very clear warnings in the Hebrew letter in 6 and 10 directed to them but is also relevant to us today. You can lose your salvation.

I understand what you're saying 100%. I used to think the exact same way. I just couldn't wrap my mind around that point, if I willingly choose to put my faith in Christ and am saved, does He then remove my free will? Could I not choose to stop following Him, as crazy and impossible as I feel that would be, am I no longer allowed? I felt just like you about it, it didn't make sense to lo longer have that option open to me, even though I could never imagine making that decision.

The thing I've realized it it is not our choice, it can't be, if it had anything to do with our choice that would make our choice a work would it not? If it is ANYTHING "we do", then that becomes a requirement and something you have to do to be saved, and yet we are told there is nothing we can "do" to save ourselves. Right? I want to be very careful here and not try to seem, as though I'm saying that our decisions have nothing to do with it, as if the two are disconnected, because they can't be. Love is not love with no choice, and we are very clearly told in scripture that we have to choose. We are also told that repentance is is a gift we are given by God, we can take no credit for our decision to repent, or I should say honestly say that "I" can take no credit for it in my life.

I come from a place where I went to the front of the church when called, I made that decision to "give my life to Jesus" in front of everyone. I even went later with them and was baptized as well to seal it, yet was not saved and did not know Him. However once I hit the hardest trial of my life, so far, and was brought to my knees in complete defeat, at a time after I was told and thought I was a Christian and saved, I hit my knees in unbelief thinking there was no power in that "Christian stuff" and that it didn't help me at all in my last 2 years of suffering. I just hit the end of any kind of belief in my own power and my ability to handle my problems. I saw my efforts for the futile attempt they truly were and couldn't do it anymore. I didn't even realize what was happening in that moment, but I was being granted repentance. I woke up the next day all new. He open my eye's to what happen throughout that day brought my to truth, and has been leading me these 10 years since. I could testify all day long but I'm trying to keep it as short as possible. I'm just making the point that when I thought it was my decision I was not saved, yet when I had no clue what was happening I was saved. I know it does not happen this way for everyone and some people may have really been saved when they repeated the sinners prayer, I'm just sharing that I do not believe it is "our decision" at all that saves us, even though it may very well play a part in our reconciliation, it does not depend or require it in any way. It sounds better when I just say that we get no glory for it. God gets ALL glory for our salvation right?

I know we Christians like to clash on it's either "this" or "that", but I believe that God working His sovereignty with/within/over our "free" will is one of the greatest mysteries of creation. I do not believe that we can lose our salvation anymore, just like I don't believe it's our choice that saves us. Jesus loses NONE the Father gives Him, if they left us they were never of us, He never knew them. It's a deep question and I understand your thinking, but it's so much bigger than just "us" it's all about HIM.

Your words and thoughts

No, don't think so. True repentance comes to someone from God as a gift. That repentance is manifested in repenting from one's dead works unto the trusting of Christ as Saviour. That kind of repentance can only be given to someone by God it is not of oneself.

[Rom 2:4 KJV]
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

The WORD of GOD IS Incorruptible

Generally and respectfully, I agree with you, but I would also suggest you consider these verses too if you haven't already done so. We receive a change of mind and heart as a result of becoming saved - but that change is not of ourselves it is of God. I could be wrong, but in reading your reply above, it seems that you left open the possibility of man's contributing to his salvation, although I could have misinterpreted it and if I did - sorry.

[Heb 10:16 KJV] 16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And yet, Christ had faith, he lived by faith, he is the only one who was righteous in his faith.

I know what you mean and why you'd think that. To make it very clear, I do NOT believe we contribute to salvation at all. God does it all without a doubt and none of us can boast. We agree on that fully. What I was talking about is in our own experience, from our perspective it can seem like it played a part, that was why I put in the part about wanting to be careful.

An example of what I mean, say the Lord is working on someone drawing them in and they go to a church that has an alter call. They go up there and "give their life to God", they repeat the prayer with all sincerity and are saved. They are truly saved and this was where God saves them. We will respond to His call, but it doesn't look the same for all of us. In this case the person may feel like they did make that choice and that's how they were saved. They did make the choice, but that's not what saved them. He did. So I'm with you 100%, I do not believe we can have anything to do with being saved and God is sovereign, in the true sense of the word. I do not agree that we are absent completely from the process either though. So from our perspective there will be actions taken, it's just they're not want save us. He is.

Then give us actual verses that clearly state this. Christ lived by obedience to the Father. God (Christ) is NOT a man, but He is the God-Man.

I do NOT believe we contribute to salvation at all

Ever see all the New Testament verses calling us to obedience?

If one refuses to be obedient and decides to go back to living in sin... you think they are still saved and going to Heaven?

Do you still sin? Daily?

No. I do not willingly or knowingly do sinful things.

It should be a rare occassion for a mature believer to sin and IF they do, it is not something they knew was sinful before doing it and then they decided to do it anyway.

Are you one of those that sin every day in thought word and deed an cannot help but sin and cannot cease from sin?

No. I do not willingly or knowingly do sinful things.

It should be a rare occassion for a mature believer to sin and IF they do, it is not something they knew was sinful before doing it and then they decided to do it anyway.

Are you one of those that sin every day in thought word and deed an cannot help but sin and cannot cease from sin?

No. I do not willingly or knowingly do sinful things.

It should be a rare occassion for a mature believer to sin and IF they do, it is not something they knew was sinful before doing it and then they decided to do it anyway.

Are you one of those that sin every day in thought word and deed an cannot help but sin and cannot cease from sin?