There will be no Rapture!!!

Why do you believe we will go up... wait for seven years... then come down. Where does the Bible say it takes seven years for us to come back?

They say a city might have a 'parousia' for an official coming to town. The city would go out and meet him, then escort him back to the city.

I suggest you re-read my quote. Pretribbers offer no evidence that the coming of Christ is two events.

The big problem with pre-trib is that it offers no evidence that verses referring to Christ's coming refers to two events. It assumes that then assigns some verses to one coming and other verses to the other.... when the idea of two returns of Christ is just assumed.

Show me scripture that shows that Jesus' parousia happens two more times.

Re: The thief in the night passages that the pretribber refers to--- in Matthew 24 the thief passage is set AFTER the tribulation. In Revelation, the reference to the thief is set AFTER the time pretribbers say that the rapture occurs.

He refers to no man knows the day or the hour. If we read Matthew 24, this 'no man knoweth the day or the hour' is regarding the coming of the Son of man AFTER the tribulation.

Pretrib doesn't make sense if you actually study the passages.

You seem confused. Read Revelation. The first resurrection passage occurs _after_ the various chapters about the tribulation of the saints.

We’re not going anywhere. At the last trump (the 7th), Jesus is coming down to the earth and in the twinkling of an eye, everyone will be changed into spiritual bodies and the the 1,000-year millennium will begin. What follows this? —the Great White Throne Judgment.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (KJV)

So do you believe Paul was wrong when he wrote in the scripture about they that are alive and remain being caught up with the raised dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air?

a mishmash! 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13-18 explain it best.

But the yare both the same evnt, and the one you say is for Christians, is at the LAST trumpet. That is after the tribulation pre-wrath just as Yahshua says.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded (the 7th trumpet), and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

If you read Revelation the last trumpet is Rev 11:15 (above) and it is post-tribulation pre-wrath.

Why do people continue to confuse trumpets announcing JUDGMENTS with trumpets announcing SALVATION? How ridiculous is that?. The trumpets of Revelation have nothing to do with the last trump or the trump of God which summons His saints to Heaven.

Okay, here’s my understanding …

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)

I don’t believe we are going to fly away anywhere until after the great tribulation and after Satan the Antichrist has set himself up in Jerusalem claiming to be God. When Jesus returns at the 7th trump, we will be changed into our spiritual bodies (air bodies). The “clouds” refer to a large gathering of people (as when Paul used these words “clouds of witnesses“ in Hebrews 12:1-2). The word "air" spoken of here refers to “breath of life.” In other words, we will meet Jesus Christ in our “breath of life bodies, or spiritual bodies.” That is the mystery Paul spoke of in 1Corinthians 15:50-54.

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, …
- Hebrews 12:1 (KJV)

Here’s a quote from quora.com:
“Paul spoke many languages including colloquial Greek aka street Greek. When Paul said they would meet the Lord in the “clouds” Paul meant the same thing as he meant in Hebrews 12:1 it’s a cloud of people. The word “air” is a Greek word (strongs 5594) meaning to breathe, breath of life. This word air does not mean atmosphere. At the 7th Trump, we will all be changed in a twinkling of an eye into our spiritual bodies 1 Corinthians 15:52.”

The LORD sent Moses and Aaron to command ten plagues before the Exodus on the Egyptians. The Hebrews only experienced the first three, and then at number ten had to apply the blood of the lamb on the doorpost so that the death angel would passover.

Will we have a Moses type for the Greater Exodus and also not experience all of the plagues?

Because this:

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, (Isa 13:10; Isa 24:23, Eze 32:7-8, Joe 2:10, Joe 2:31, Joe 3:15) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. (Hag 2:6, Hag 2:21, Amo 5:20, Amo 8:9. Isa 34:4) “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, (Zec 12:10-14 and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds (Dan 7:13) of the heaven with power and much esteem. (Dan 7:14) “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, (Isa 27:13) and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, (Dan 7:2) from one end of the heavens to the other. (Deu 4:32.)”

when does the tribulation end? Right here, as the wrath of YHWH begins right after this...

Revelation 11:15-19, "And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”And the twenty-four elders sitting before יהוה on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped יהוה, saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Strength Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth. And the Dwelling Place of יהוה was opened in the heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His Dwelling Place. And there came to be lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

And this pertains to salvation, not trumpet judgments. Actually the culmination of salvation, along with the Rapture.

when does "the last trumpet?" occur?

These scriptures pertain to the Secong Coming and the end of this earth age.

At the same time as the Rapture: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thess 4:16)

I know that, but Im saying when does that happen? It is in Revelation correct? In a verse I quoted?

You are extremely confused so kindly go back and study carefully.

There is NO Resurrection/Rapture shown in Revelation. The fact that it has already occurred is confirmed by the absence of the words "church" or "churches" from Rev 6-18.

I aksed when is the last trumpet, not about a rapture.There are 7 trumpets in Revelation, when is the last one?