Saved by faith alone?

Hmm... IDK.

If I remember correctly, you are in agreement with those that think baptism is required for Salvation. Is that right?

Then you posted saying that this thread reminds of the kinda' talk at a shift-change... "all ya' gotta do is thus and such...", as though we're making things too easy and over-simplifying the Gospel; and instead, you ask: "Why do we not simply, willingly and lovingly do ALL that is taught in scripture?"
It's like you think "faith-alone" is too simple... so teach all of Scripture... to babes.
And now you seem to be saying that babies don't know anything and have to be taught how to be born? (which I've never heard!)
So, are you saying that the Gospel message should be as complicated as possible?
That all seems too incredible for me to believe that someone actually believes that?

Please clarify...

It has totally blown my mind...

It has always been my understanding of all scriptures that salvation is something of a process.... much like being under the old covenant was something of a process... the sign of being under the old covenant was circumcision. But the Jewish people were also expected to follow the laws of God in order to "be saved". They were not "earning" salvation, they were simply doing what was asked of them by God.
The new covenant is similar in many ways.... we don't "earn" salvation, it is freely offered.... we simply accept it. But to fulfil our part of the covenant, we do what we are asked to do.... belief that Jesus died for us, faith that he saves us, and obedience to his commands. Our visible sign that we are in full agreement with the covenant is baptism.... just as circumcision was for the old covenant.

In that sense, it is a requirement.... we don't do it to "earn" salvation, we do it to show that we have willingly accepted the free gift of salvation. If we refuse to do that, how can we say that we have taken part in the covenant? If a Jewish man said, yes, I want to be a part of Abraham's tribe, with all the benefits thereof, but I'm not doing the circumcision thing.... would he have been truly been a participant in the covenant? Of course not....

And if we don't make that clear to someone wanting to be a part of this new covenant, then we are failing them. But, this is why I think that baptism should be done as soon as a person accepts Jesus into their life.... it is their public statement that they are part of the new covenant.... plus, as scripture tells us, it is an appeal to God for a clear conscience through Jesus' death and resurrection, and it is for the forgiveness of sin. And, it is to receive the Holy Spirit, as scripture tells us.

Why would anyone want to leave any of that out? Just for "convenience" ??

LOL.... well, I've accomplished something today.... read post 543....
I'm not making it complicated, I'm simply looking at ALL the scriptures, and seeing the whole picture...

What I'm understanding from the conversation isn't that all those things aren't associated with salvation but are unnecessary to salvation. But once salvation has been granted, these acts are not only expected, but the lack of them would be evidence that salvation has not truly taken place. In short, grace produces faith. Faith produces works.

The complications come when the whole picture is homogenized, instead of Rightly
Divided, eh? i.e.:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

A) Do I follow Him, and the doctrine He Spoke as The:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5, 24:47; Mar 1:4)
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be water baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23)
+
8) pray as a watchman, for Great Tribulation, man of sin, son of perdition, and
signs of the end times, and Second Coming?

A) Do I follow His earthly prophecy "faith PLUS works" program of covenants and law?
( OT, Mat - John, Heb - Rev ) or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) Do I follow Him As The Risen And Glorified "Head Of His Church" and ask:

I have decided to Follow ( The Heavenly ) LORD Jesus?

And, His Heavenly Pure Grace Program, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery?
(His Doctrine in Romans - Philemon)

Of course, Under God's Other Context Of Grace for The ( Heavenly ) ONE Body
Of Christ, Which began with ( ONE apostle ) Paul, Baptized By The ONE Spirit,
as the first 'member' of the ONE New man...
(Ephesians 2:15; 1 Timothy 1:16; Romans 11:13; Ephesians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13),

...it is ( as Paul states 21 x ) "But Now":

1) Have repentance toward God (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!")
(Acts 20:21)
+
2) Have faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21), and trust/believe The Gospel
Of The Grace Of God: His Death ( ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross ), Burial, And
Resurrection, According To The Scripture (Ephesians 2:5-9; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
+
3) Acknowledge I am Spiritually Baptized By The ONE Baptism Of The Holy Spirit
Into The ONE (Spiritual Organism) Body Of Christ, Seated In the Heavenlies
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13)
+
4) Acknowledge Christ Is Living in me, so I allow Him to, through me:
+
5) To Fulfil:

+
6) Study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided to show myself "Approved Unto God"
(2 Timothy 2:15), and all the rest of these Bible study rules!
+
7) Work with my hands to "give to them in need," and the LORD "shall supply all my need"
(Ephesians 4:28; 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12; 1 Timothy 5:8)
+
8) Be a humble prayer warrior and:
"...look, watch, and Patiently WAIT For..." = The LORD Jesus Christ!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
9) Put on the FULL armour of God and stand, in the spiritual warfare I wrestle with
(Ephesians 6:10-18)
+
10)
Eph 6:19 "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the Mystery Of The Gospel,"
+
11)
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of The Mystery, which from the
beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ"
(Eph 3:9)
+
12) Acknowledge that I am going to give an account at Judgment
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15; Romans 14:12), at my Heavenly Home-Going
( Great GRACE Departure! )

According to these and all the details of God's Sound Doctrinal Blueprint In
Romans Through Philemon? (1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9):

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Or:

C) Do I speak after following the Many, who homogenize A) + B) into
Massive Confusion?

Final question would be: Which Option, Under Grace Today, should I take
To Honor and Glorify God, Who Plainly and Clear Says in Romans 11:6:

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise
Grace is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it
no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Precious friend(s), thanks again. I appreciate all your prayerful and
careful consideration of this Eternally Important Matter.

Amen.

Extra Related study Bonus:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

It is a process...
I think many people see it as a fairy touching you on the head and saying "poof, you're saved!" I don't see it as a "poof" moment and you're done.
It is a process.... it is a free gift, but as with any covenant you enter, it requires participation from both parties in the covenant.

I do believe salvation is often a process. And some seem to hear the gospel and come to faith quickly while others seem to take a more circuitous route. But I believe the Bible teaches that salvation begins with faith and that faith is all that is necessary. And I believe that faith will evidence itself in a variety of ways as you and others have suggested. But if they are necessary to salvation, and they are things required of an individual to be saved, then salvation is no longer of grace by definition. Grace offers no merit.
I recognize that you and others have stipulated that one does these not for merit or favor. But I don't understand how something is required and one done does not accrue merit. To me it seems counterintuitive. This is especially so because salvation is said directly not to be of works. It also seems counterintuitive to me that works are things we do, yet often the argument is that we must do them but they are somehow not works.

Love your post... but wonder about your choice of word here:

Counterintuitive:
contrary to intuition or to common-sense expectation (but often nevertheless true)

Person though, I would have used absolutely insane.

LOL now do you want to stop skirting around the quesiton and give me a real attempt at a truthful answer? Im talking about true saving faith. One has it. Now what is the cut off line in terms of good works does one need to know they're saved? Or is it a guessing game until your final breath?

I'm here to promote discussion and understand why people believe as they do. Also, I truly desire the other person's good, though that doesn't always come through.

i dont believe in works-based salvation, Lamar does. That's why I posed him that question.

So many people are confused as to what scripture says about the remission of sins.


Please look at http://www.biblestudytools.com and do a search in the King James version for remission. Then look at every passage which has that word in the New Testament. Then look at the meaning of the words in each passage.


To summarize it, to be baptized for the remission of sin is NOT to be baptized so one will be forgiven (have remission) of sin, but because one has forgiveness of sins.


Let’s look at this in more detail:


Matthew 26:28 tells us, “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”


In Mark 1:4, we see, “John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins.”


In Luke 3:3, we see, “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins.”


In Acts 2:38, we see, “Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”


Now, before you get confused that people must be baptized in order to have the remission of sin, there are two ways to use the word “for.” What is meant by the phrase “Billy the Kid is wanted for murder”? It can either mean he is wanted so he can murder someone, or it can mean he is wanted because he murdered someone. Obviously, we understand the phrase to mean the latter – he was wanted because he murdered someone. This is the same usage of the word translated as “for” (the Greek word is Eis) in Matthew 26:28, Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3: Christ shed his blood because people would receive salvation through faith in what He did, and people should be baptized because of what Christ did – not so they will receive forgiveness, but because of the forgiveness they have already received when they believed. The idea is we should be baptized because of what Christ did for us (shed blood so our sins could be forgiven when we have faith) – not so we will receive forgiveness of sin.

Salvation is in the very moment when a person believes in Christ and accepts salvation.

Everything else, occurs after that fact. Nothing, and the Bible is very clear on that, nothing saves us but the blood of Christ
shed on the cross. We cannot add to that sacrifice and it is an insult to God to think we can.

We should be baptized as per directions in scripture...but you know the Jordan is not just over the next hill...most churches now have a baptismal tank and that is where both profession in Christ and identification with Him is expressed and the baptism occurs or at a river or lake or pond or what have you.

Salvation is not incremental. If it were, then it means that what Jesus said on the cross, 'IT IS FINISHED' is not true.

Our part is to continue in faith, as we began in faith and God is faithful and true to His promises and He will keep us. We cannot keep or save ourselves.

Your salvation is between you and Jesus and God and receive the Holy Spirit to enable you to walk your walk of faith in Christ by the power of God's Holy Spirit.

Saved by Grace through faith

No confusion about it in the Rightly Divided post #546

Amen.

Traditional 'Denominational' water practices cause way too much Confusion, But
God Teaches:

There is only ONE ( Spiritual ) Baptism, not two, adding the previous water ritual to
God's [ Current ] Grace!

Amen.

You do a great job!
Better than I... better than most.

Okay...but what about the question?

Let me rephrase it for you.

Is "saved by grace through faith" equivalent to "saved by grace through faith alone"?