The tribulation

I'm surprised so many people think I should get saved. I been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ only since 1998. 25 years this July. I just personally never took to shooting Daniel's last week into the future to the tribulation when the weeks were exact from the rebuilding of the temple. It seems like poor exegesis or scripture interprets scripture to just add Daniel to revelations. The temple was destroyed after the apostle warned of it, writing as early as 50 ad. That's Daniel's week. Some people got it that it's the temple's destruction. Thanks for all those posts. It's not a salvation issue. I think some people are just being smug.

I would like to know your view on Christs return where all the nations will see him?

I dont believe things on earth will continue to 2042 and beyond. I think the antichrist will appear much sooner than that as in the next couple of years if that.

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● Rev 6:5 . . And when He broke the third seal, I heard the third living
creature saying: Come! And I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he
who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.

Scales (a.k.a. balances) were used in the application of commercial weights
and measures. Modern electronic scales are quite a bit more sophisticated.

The black horse in this case indicates hunger. (compare the pale horse's
assignment in Rev 6:8)

● Rev 6:6a . . And I heard as it were a voice in the center of the four living
creatures saying: A measure of wheat for a denarius, and three measures of
of barley for a denarius;

The Greek word translated "measure" is roughly equal to 1.09 liters or 2.3
US pints. The denarius is widely assumed to have been equivalent to a day's
pay for soldiers and/or laborers.

It's a pretty good guess that what we're looking at is hand-to-mouth
existence due to inflationary pricing caused by the simple fact that there just
won't be enough to go around; for example:

"When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your
bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat,
but you will not be satisfied." (Lev 26:26)

● Rev 6:6b . . do not damage the oil and the wine!

Oil made from olives was common in just about everybody's kitchen and
served as a shortening. (cf. 1Kngs 17:8-12)
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See comment in post No.45
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“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what happens when a believer dies ?

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

does this mean we’ll be raptures from any hard times in the world ? Or is it about our spirit being saved from death when our body is given to death ?

Christian’s from all nations have been living thier lives and passing away for two thousand years now where are thier living spirits ?

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-10, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they have left the body and are present with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom waiting for the rest to come through

“we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”


“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”( that’s what we see in revelation 7)
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You see the tribes of Israel fe th res and sealed first ( ot) then after that you see people from all nations appear at the throne with the messiah claiming salvation and praising God and his lamb who inherit a kingdom

Its nOt only martyrs but all who love the lord and then pass away from this world those who go before us who kept thier lamps burning once we live and die we believers enter into the kingdom of heaven the next world

It was "Popular" in the '60s. There weredozens itinerant "End Times Preachers" with their huge "End times Charts", and "End times messages".

"88 reasons" was a best seller, and injured a lot of people who actually took Whisnant's garbage seriously, and "got ready to go" in a rapture that never happened.

In my case, it was one of MANY LESSONS that illustrated the absolute uselessness of "End time foolishness". And since I have only a few years left, I see no sense in wasting them bothering with religious con men's pipe dreams.

I never gave Camping a second thought (but a lot of people did, and suffered for it economically if they put their trust in him).

I've been Born again for 60 years now, and there's almost NO form of religious lunacy I havent experienced, or seen over the decades.

So you believe all of Matthew 24 happened in the first century? What about Matthew 24:30-31 where it says, "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven...coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Then are no historical records whatsoever, of the sign of the Son of Man appearing in the heavens nor Him sending out His angels to gather His elect.

Well, take out the church age and overlay it with tribulation. Take out rapture and overlay it with 2nd coming. And then the chart will be biblically accurate.

Church age = the time of tribulation
(Gentiles' gain = the Jews' loss)
(Time of gentiles = time of Jew wrath)

There is no gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. Nowhere in scripture has the living God every indicated that He measures time that way. It contradicts the very purpose of revealing the time prophecy to man.

70 weeks were decreed for the Jews before judgment would fall on them. It was a countdown. Daniel asked when would the Jews' judgment end, studying that their captivity would be 70 years from the book of Jeremiah.

God told him that punishment was multiplying 7 times (just like He promised it would in leviticus, if israel continued to sin while in a round of heavenly punishment). So 70 years went to 70x7 years.

God then told Daniel that the Messiah would come during that time and the people would STILL fail, leading to their desolation as a people.

Did judgment fall on them? Yes. The very fact that the salvation of the Jews went to the gentiles, that the city was desolated, that the Jews were scattered, is all the proof that the 70 weeks prophecy is done.

Adding a gap makes The Father a liar because time hasn't stopped. So we would need to add nearly 2000 years to the 490 years

But there are historical records for everything else that happened prior to the sign of the son of man.

Everything in Matthew 24 has been fulfilled up to up to that.

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● Rev 6:7-8 . .When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of
the fourth living creature say: Come!

. . . I looked, and there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named
Death, and hades was following close behind him. They were given power
over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the
wild beasts of the earth.

* The lethal sources given are common throughout the world today; but
never have they harvested so many souls as they will in the future.

The current global population is roughly 7,964,189,000 i.e. 7.96 billion. By
the time Mr. Death finishes his work, something like 1.99 billion of those
people would be rubbed out by war, hunger, disease, and the animal
kingdom; which consists of a fair number of poisonous species along with
toxic critters like vampire bats and mosquitoes.

* In perspective: 1.99 billion people adds up to nearly 6x the USA's
current population.

We don't usually notice someone's passing unless they're famous or one of
our friends, associates, and relatives. Well; when Mr. Death goes to work,
the dead will be all around us and impossible to overlook. I rather suspect
funeral homes will be overwhelmed; if open for business at all.

And ER? Well, it's Mr. Death's intention that people die rather than survive,
so I should think that any and all medical attention the hospitals are able to
provide will be quite ineffective, viz: they'll likely serve as morgues instead of
treatment centers.
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But these artists could always have been countered by sound bible knowledge ... as can artists today in all areas of crankiology

... people can prove anything using the apocalypse.

The day is drawing ever closer, I like you will most likely not be here to see these things ... but I think the children will

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● Rev 13:8 . . All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-- all whose
names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that
was slain from the world.

Jesus wasn't a stand-by paramedic sent to an unexpected train wreck,
rather; he was designated, and scheduled, to die on a cross prior to God
creating even a single atom for the current cosmos. (1Pet 1:18-21)

Everything is a foregone conclusion with God; nothing surprises Him. God
foresaw the forbidden fruit incident, He foresaw Cain and Abel, He foresaw
the Flood, He foresaw the Tower of Babel, He foresaw Sodom and Gomorrah,
He foresaw the Holocaust, and He has seen the Lake of Fire and the end of
the world as we know it.

There are no new Christians with God. He's already foreseen every one of
them back at the very beginning just as He's seen everything else ahead of
time before it comes to pass. Ergo: if somebody's name isn't already in the
lamb's book of life, then their name is never going to be in there.

● Eph 1:3-5 . . Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who
has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
For He chose us in him before the creation of the world . . . in love He
predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in
accordance with His pleasure and will.
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● Rev 13:4 . . And they worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the
Beast: and they worshipped the Beast, saying: Who is like unto the Beast?
Who is able to make war with him?

* The Dragon is identified at Rev 12:9 as the Serpent, the Devil, and Satan;
so there can be no doubt who this creature really is. (cf. Rev 20:2)

It's quite possible that the people of that day will honestly believe the Beast
is empowered by a divine being; and unaware they are actually giving glory to
a demonic being instead. For example:

● 2Thess 2:9-12 . . .This evil man will come to do the work of Satan with
counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of wicked
deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they
refuse to believe the truth that would save them. So God will send great
deception upon them, and they will believe all these lies.

Worship of the Beast will be universal, mandatory, and strictly benforced
regardless of age, race, gender, and/or ethnic identity-- a one-world mega
religion that blows all others out of the water, e.g. Islam, Mormonism,
Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i, Buddhism, etc.
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When I was a developing Christian back in the decade of the 1970's, a radio
Bible teacher recommended a book by J. Dwight Pentecost titled "Things To
Come" (ISBN 0-310-30890-9)

It proved an excellent resource at the time because I was very interested in
Israel's future and all the end time events. The book is still in print and can
be had from Amazon dot com. I'd guess that most book stores can order it
too if it's not on their shelves.
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● Rev 13:5 . . And there was given unto the Beast a mouth speaking great
things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty
and two months.

Prophetic months aren't the same as calendar months. Prophetic months are
thirty days each; so that forty-two such months add up to 1,260 days, i.e.
3½ prophetic years, e.g. Rev 11:2 & Rev 12:6

Prophetic months are sort of like a baker's dozen. Though a baker's dozen
isn't a dozen of twelve; it is nonetheless a dozen in its own right.

* Scripture introduces prophetic months in Genesis relative to the Flood
where a period of five months adds up to exactly 150 days.
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The tribulation in Mat 24 happen exactly when Jesus said it would, I believe He said "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

That was after describing all the following-

The Abomination of Desolation

15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Lesson of the Fig Tree

32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.


So Jesus said all these things would happen before the generation He was speaking to passed away.....and it did.
This judgement was a specific judgement against a very specific people, the covenant breaking Jews that told God to His face "We have no king but Caesar, your blood be on us and on our children". Then 40 years later the temple was destroyed brick off of brick and the end of that age came upon them EXACTLY as Jesus said it would.

Now we know this happen and I think that most of us would agree that scripture is closed, that Jesus fulfilled everything we need for salvation and God has given us His word. So like Paul said "Even if we come to you with something different than what you've been given then let us be dammed to hell".

So if the temple is gone, already served it's purpose and is gone, and God hasn't told us in His word to rebuild His temple, then just based on this alone how can anyone be expecting a third temple? Besides the fact another temple would be spitting in the face of Jesus, how on earth can God's Holy Temple be His if He hasn't commanded it be built. The idea that these things are future to us is a gross misreading of SO much of Gods word. I know many disagree, but I've never heard the "3rd temple dilemma", as I call it, answered with scripture, only "God can do what He wants". That's unacceptable to me.