Gay Christian?

This is another false narrative that you have said which is nothing new and has been addressed in many other threads even this one.

Homosexuality is a political movement that is no longer about two consenting adults in a relationship who say they love each other. it is now the LGBTQ that is actively seeking to have sex with children and see it thought in public schools to also remove Parental right from Parents and want genital mutilation of those under the age of 18.

This has long moved from two consenting adults of the same sex in a relationship. And you are trying to justify Homosexuality by pointing out a wrong done to women in a marriage to a man. I question your integrity to speak about those things THESE WOMEN YOU SAY TOLD YOU. I wonder if they know how you are using their pain for your point?


First off, many men are addicted to porn in marriages. It is a pandemic in and out of the church Hell it has been for some time. Many of us ministers fight this every day in some way, shape, or fashion. We can judge the action and not condemn the person.

That is the main issue with those like you who think calling sin is the judgment it is not.
If you are incapable of discerning the times in which we live and do not see the demonic attack on the family as God intended it to be.

Secondly, I was abused in my youth and had issues with porn. Jesus delivered me from all of it. Married 31 years this April. Yet I never bring anything into my marriage or bedroom outside my wife and me. Homosexuals and LGBTQ will never have the peace of God that I have in marriage as God intended it to be.

Tat is the torment of this in this sin as all SIN does.

I did not in any way, shape, or form justify homosexuality in my post.

I did not in any way, shape, or form justify homosexuality in my post.

And if I did, I invite someone to please report me to the mods for promoting homosexuality, because that goes against the fundamental Christian beliefs that are the basis for this forum.

And if you read my post again, you will see that I said that I believe sodomy is wrong in ANY case, no matter who it involves.

What I did say, is that yes, sexual sin in ALL forms, both homosexual AND straight, must be confronted and dealt with.

My pondering is this: many straight, married Christians have no qualms about confronting others over their sexual sins, and yes, they could be saving these people's souls.

I repeat: Homosexuality is wrong and it is sin -- no question about it. And it must be confronted.

BUT, so do the sexual sins of married Christians -- so who is going to confront them? After all, it might very well be saving their souls, too.

My point is, one groups sins cannot be ignored while another is openly condemned, because BOTH groups must have their sins adequately confronted and dealt with.

I realize my posts will probably be met with a lot of red X's and I debated on not saying anything at all. But I do feel I posted for a reason, and all I can do is continue to pray.

Again, if you see me as promoting homosexuality, report me to the mods and I will accept my correction and/or banning.

I didn't see anything in your posts promoting sodomy.

And I fully agree with what you say. I find it infuriating when Christians will pick on a cultural unacceptable sin, but ignore the sins in their own lives because they're culturally acceptable.

I've known Christians who struggled with pornography. But while I don't know all the details of their lives, I do know that in a few cases, the wives have been quite obnoxious people. Not in looks - but in personality. Always wanting to compete with, rather than support, their husbands, always being selfish and denigrating them (and others) - always obsessed with shallow, petty things and never considering what is more important. I've often wondered if it was the wives' selfishness that drove the husbands for satisfaction elsewhere. I'm not justifying the husbands' sins, but I do believe one sin leads to another, and while church-goers were happy to condemn the obvious sin in the husbands, perhaps they should have also focused on the open selfishness and shallowness of the wives. If they'd done this in the first place, maybe the other sins would not even have followed.

This said, I also believe sodomy is a more depraved sin. I believe some sexual sins are from our sinful nature (like adultery/fornication/lustfulness etc.), but I think homosexuality is unnatural. In some, I think this occurs because the homosexuals were abused by other homosexuals in childhood. For others, it might be more of a spiritual thing (dealing with the demonic and witchcraft). I definitely also think the poisons in our environment and food are contributing to the homosexual pandemic (by suppressing/overriding natural attraction for opposite and revulsion to the same), not to mention the propaganda that justifies and promotes such behaviour.

Upon rereading your post I see your point.

It is true Christians have used Paul's statement "the marriage bed is undefiled to man" to mean a lot more than what he was addressing.

Women in the church are definitely suffering because of this modern day interpretation along with other factors.

You raise a very valid point, I do not see an easy answer when churches are so large and often impersonal and there are limited resources to help these couples.

Those men need help.

Hi @ThereRoseaLamb,

You know I have the utmost respect for you, so I'm not saying this to argue at all -- it's just something I've always pondered, growing up in the church.

I am not in any way saying that homosexuality is justified -- not at all. As Christians, we all know homosexuality is wrong. But I know what I've grown up seeing is a lot of straight, married Christians condemning others who are "obviously" sinning -- openly gay, straight and living together, etc. But the thing I've always wondered, and I think this might be part of what @lonelysummer is getting at, is if straight, married Christians have a right to judge the sexual sins of others, who has the right to stand up to THEM about their own sexual sins?

I have known at least two Christian women who tearfully told me that their husbands preferred oral and anal sex to what we would call normal sex. And since they only preferred women, they considered themselves 100% straight and not doing anything wrong -- all while freely condemning homosexuals and others in outward sexual sin.

But who would be able to step in and correct them? Especially because these women were much too embarrassed to go to their (male) pastor or anyone else. In one case, it was to the point where the husband would just force her, and she was ashamed and terrified to tell anyone. She was sobbing so hard she couldn't talk as she was trying to relate this to me, and I cried right along with her. We both knew, in the churches we were in, she would never be allowed to leave him -- and she certainly wouldn't want to tell anyone why.
What it boiled down to is that these wives were being pressured and/or forced to participate in acts with their husbands that they did not want to do. I realize there would be debate about oral, but I would think Christians would definitely agree that sodomy against anyone, let alone a wife, is wrong.

I honestly think issues like this are a lot more common than anyone in the church is willing to admit.
.

Likewise, many of the men (including pastors and elders) in the churches I attended confessed to porn addictions, and they weren't having much victory. So they could point out the sins of a homosexual one minute to save that person's soul, while going home and having to hide what they were watching on their computers every night from their wives. How many married Christians are fantasizing about another man or woman during their private time with their spouse?
And won't God judge these things too?
.

On the outside, these were respected Christian couples, well-known in their churches and community. But their private lives told a much different story.

Another young man, a new Christian, was trying to get away from the sexual sins of his past, and he asked me (online) if God would be ok with him and his wife experimenting with "toys" as a way to help him satisfy his cravings and get over them.

I told him I was raised in a church that believed this was wrong, but I strongly advised him to talk to his own pastor and study what the Bible says for himself.
.

I don't want to speak for @lonelysummer, but I think I understand where he's coming from. From the time I was a teen, one of my biggest questions became, "What's the difference between between confronting someone in order to save their soul and confronting a self-proclaimed Christian (because only God knows if they truly are) who is repeatedly guilty of habitual sin?"

And why do the ones with the secret sins get away with pointing their fingers at the ones who's sins are outward? The only difference is, one is observable, and the other is not. It's a lot like a young woman who is pregnant out of wedlock -- much is said to condemn and correct her, but usually not so much about the man who is the other part of the equation. It's just that her sin is much more noticeable.

I can admit I might be a bit jaded though, as I grew up watching people claim to be so close to God that they could apparently somehow point out everyone else's sins without anyone else knowing about, or no one was brave enough, to confront them about their own.

Again, I'm not meaning this as an argument at all. And I'm certainly not trying to defend homosexuality.

But the points that were brought up in these posts are something I think and pray about quite often.

Thank you both for being open-minded when taking in what I am trying to say. Moses Young just summed it all up in one sentence, and much more eloquently than me. He has a God-given talent for doing that.

Said another way, we Christians all know that God tells us to remove the planks from our own eyes before going after someone else's specks. Now I'm certainly not trying to reduce sins like homosexuality to specks, because it's definitely a plank of a sin.

But what I see happening is that the church seems to have thrown all its focus on correcting those who sin differently than they do, all while turning their heads, sweeping their own issues behind church doors -- and everyone suffers because of it.

It's kind of like a government trying to give a lot of its manpower and resources to foreign countries -- but its own citizens are suffering from lack and neglect.

One of the reasons I'm single is because I can't find a single Christian guy who isn't into porn. I've put up with it in the past, thinking enough worship, prayer, and church attendance would help the person, but it didn't. so now I'd rather just avoid it if I can. I also want to emphasize that I do know some wonderful Christian guys who are NOT into porn, but for whatever reason, we are just friends.

Is the church as gung-ho about going after its members' porn addictions as it is about confronting homosexuals? Again, this is NOT to justify homosexuality -- this is to say, BOTH are sins, and BOTH need serious correction.

And Moses, I understand what you're saying about women, and I agree with you. Men and women are not being taught, mentored, or led into their proper roles, and it takes a toll on everyone. I'm sure one of the reasons I'm also single is because I'm probably too stuck in my ways, and that's all on me.

I personally feel the church has become unbalanced -- going into full battle mode over the planks of the world, but becoming unable or unwilling to provide for the desperate needs of its own people in the process.

And this is what I'm protesting.

Yes, He will! But have we changed the conversation to Christians struggling with homosexuality? Some Christians face those struggles until they are called home. But a Christian struggling is a different conversation than someone who isn't saved. Both are sexual sins and they are the worst to break free from. And I believe if we were all honest with whatever our struggles are and could call some friends and say " I need prayer today" we would see a lot more deliverance.

I have said before, if we all got real about our struggles there would be a lot of healing in and out of the church. You know that I had a lot of years in evangelism. So I see it as how do we reach people who are confused about their sex and their gender. The Bible talks about deceiving spirits in the last days, if there ever was a time. smh As the Jesus Revolution said, these kids are looking for the same thing you are, love and acceptance, they are just looking in all the wrong places. It doesn't matter if we can hid our sin, or its out in the open flag flying. God will judge both. But the only difference is our sin/struggle is under the blood, theirs is not. Again we must use discernment and the Holy Spirit to reach the lost, but we must call sin sin. I think we agree on most everything, thanks sister for the discussion.

Hi @ThereRoseaLamb!

Thank you so much for all the time and detail you put into writing your replies. I have only been able to read them once so far and intend to read them a few more times. Please don't think I skipped over anything you said; the reason I'm highlighting this sentence is because I felt like the Holy Spirit was jolting me with emphasis through your words -- that sin must always be addressed and dealt with, never excused, no matter who is committing it.

I so appreciate your experience with the Christian community and the great amount of wisdom you have to share. The story about the young boy and his family who were fun out of town was heart-breaking to read. The funny thing is, believers then wonder why people aren't flocking to the church! Even it's own members are terrified to be their real selves with anyone and to ask for help.

If the world sees that this is how we treat our own, why would they want to listen to anything we have to say? I feel that an important part of witnessing/confronting them is to at least offer them some kind of next step -- such as possibly a home church where they can learn more and get closer to God in a hopefully safe environment.

I'm not saying that church is the end-all, be-all, because churches are imperfect, but for my own self, I don't feel like I can point out someone's sin without at least having something to offer that could gently steer them in another direction (prayer, go with them to church because it can be intimidating, a devotional, etc.)

What troubles me is that it seems like the church has become a place of nothing BUT judgment and correction, and without any empathy or love to balance that out, everyone, including its own members, are going to be driven away.

And again, I'm not condoning or excusing sin (I should probably emphasize this again, lest anyone else would accuse me of saying that sin is somehow ok.)

I just don't want to see the church use someone else's sins as a cop-out for not dealing with its own.

No wonder one of the number one reasons people give for not being part of a church is, "Churches are full of hypocrites."

Hopefully, we can all be part of a movement to change that.

I did not in any way, shape, or form justify homosexuality in my post.

And if I did, I invite someone to please report me to the mods for promoting homosexuality because that goes against the fundamental Christian beliefs that are the basis for this forum.

And if you read my post again, you will see that I said that I believe sodomy is wrong in ANY case, no matter who it involves.

What I did say, is that yes, sexual sin in ALL forms, both homosexual AND straight, must be confronted and dealt with.

My pondering is this: many straight, married Christians have no qualms about confronting others over their sexual sins, and yes, they could be saving these people's souls.

I repeat: Homosexuality is wrong and it is sin -- no question about it. And it must be confronted.

BUT, so do the sexual sins of married Christians -- so who is going to confront them? After all, it might very well be saving their souls, too.

My point is, one groups sins cannot be ignored while another is openly condemned, because BOTH groups must have their sins adequately confronted and dealt with.

I realize my posts will probably be met with a lot of red X's and I debated on not saying anything at all. But I do feel I posted for a reason, and all I can do is continue to pray.

Again, if you see me as promoting homosexuality, report me to the mods and I will accept my correction and/or banning.

I've heard it said that the church is like a hospital. Again, I think a good start would be in homes. They use to do that in the 70s. That way people can feel they are not being preached at and people are more willing to ask questions. As I said, if we're gonna sit with arms folded and think sinners are going to come to us, we're mistaken. But then we have so many churches with the "us four and no more" attitude that I wonder if they care if sinners come in.

I use to laugh at churches that would call us in for outreach ministry and then have an open air service in their church parking lot. People loved it, sit in their cars, hear a short message, and leave. Somehow they saw that as outreach. Reminds me of the following story...
"Several young Salvation Army officers ask their leader, General William Booth, “How can we save the lost?” They had felt like they had exhausted everything that they knew to do. So Booth tore off a piece of brown paper sack and wrote two words. He handed it to these young zealous leaders and the note read, “Try tears.”
If we first don't love the lost like Jesus does, then we might as well stay home and not even bother. There was a time when we were lost, if we don't have the empathy to reach out to others there is a serious problem with our relationship with God.

Yes, you did.
And it is my opinion as I see it from your post. One can justify a sin here that is not something a Mod necessarily deals with. It is promoting it. And as you said :"My pondering is this: many straight, married Christians have no qualms about confronting others over their sexual sins, and yes, they could be saving these people's souls. "

Do you assume Married Christians have no qualms about confronting others over their sexual sin? Yet it is the Homosexual who has sought to have what Married couples have and cannot. The red X means one "disagrees with," so don't put too much into it I have many myself, get over it ok. No one has ignored Those who are not Homosexual. You are trying to justify homosexuality by speaking of " Strait People?"

Once again, if you read over my posts, I am not promoting homosexuality in any way. I've written several other posts explaining my point of view.



I don't care about you giving me a red X. However, I will stand up for myself when being falsely accused of something I didn't do.

Several posts back, another poster pointed out that homosexuals commit sexual sins, but married Christian people also commit sexual sins, and this is the point I am addressing. I'm not sure how you see this as promoting homosexuality because I have said NUMEROUS times in both posts that homosexuality is SIN, but keep reading it as you are interpreting it for yourself. I can't do anything about that, as you've made up your own mind.

I don't know how to break it down into any plainer English. At least some of the other posters here seem to understand what I'm saying, so I'm thankful to those for whom my posts have not been in vain.

ANYONE can confront a homosexual about their sin, whether a single Christian or married Christian. But what I think the other poster I was referring to was trying to say, and what I am saying in my posts, is that we have to realize EVERYONE has some kind of sexual sin.

I have seen this attitude in the church that the Christians who are married are "in the clear" and 100% sexually pure just because they're married. But that's just not true, and it never gets addressed. I'm certainly not trying to say that all married Christians are committing sexual sins, but I think it's important to acknowledge that sexual sin that almost everyone has to fight continually -- not just the homosexuals or those who are sinning in a more obvious way.

My posts have been pointing out that many churches seem so focused on correcting others that they aren't addressing their own sexual sins within the church. After all, if we are to help homosexual people become saved, what can we say to them? "Follow me, come join our church, where 80% of the members have continual porn addictions, but we're on a mission to call out everyone else's sins and get them all saved because we're too busy correcting you to worry about us."

My point, as I have said several times, is that all sexual sin is sexual sin. It's just that churches (ones I've been around at least) seem to put so much time and energy into correcting homosexual sins, but yet aren't putting much or nearly enough energy into correcting the sins within the church itself.

God sets us to a higher standard, and while it's a noble and just thing to confront things like homosexual sin, the church has to put an even stricter means of correction towards its own body.

What sexual sin does a married Christian couple commit? You do realize that a married couple between one man and one woman is appropriate to have sexual relations, but homosexuality can never be right in any content. So why are you trying to bring the context of the sex of God-approved married in the same manner as homosexuality? Are you married? Are you speaking from your own personal shortcomings?

You know that everyone has some kind of sexual sin. Wow!! I have a qestion for you

Do you think being tempted is a sin? And is a sexual temptation the only battle Christians have to fight?

I am not really sure what you are going on about her, but you seem to imply that everything goes for a married couple, does that include BDSM and sodomy?

I really feel like you are not comprehending @seoulsearch point.

Hi @ThereRoseaLamb,

You know I have the utmost respect for you, so I'm not saying this to argue at all -- it's just something I've always pondered, growing up in the church.

I am not in any way saying that homosexuality is justified -- not at all. As Christians, we all know homosexuality is wrong. But I know what I've grown up seeing is a lot of straight, married Christians condemning others who are "obviously" sinning -- openly gay, straight and living together, etc. But the thing I've always wondered, and I think this might be part of what @lonelysummer is getting at, is if straight, married Christians have a right to judge the sexual sins of others, who has the right to stand up to THEM about their own sexual sins?

I have known at least two Christian women who tearfully told me that their husbands preferred oral and anal sex to what we would call normal sex. And since they only preferred women, they considered themselves 100% straight and not doing anything wrong -- all while freely condemning homosexuals and others in outward sexual sin.

But who would be able to step in and correct them? Especially because these women were much too embarrassed to go to their (male) pastor or anyone else. In one case, it was to the point where the husband would just force her, and she was ashamed and terrified to tell anyone. She was sobbing so hard she couldn't talk as she was trying to relate this to me, and I cried right along with her. We both knew, in the churches we were in, she would never be allowed to leave him -- and she certainly wouldn't want to tell anyone why.

What it boiled down to is that these wives were being pressured and/or forced to participate in acts with their husbands that they did not want to do. I realize there would be debate about oral, but I would think Christians would definitely agree that sodomy against anyone, let alone a wife, is wrong.

I honestly think issues like this are a lot more common than anyone in the church is willing to admit.

Likewise, many of the men (including pastors and elders) in the churches I attended confessed to porn addictions, and they weren't having much victory. So they could point out the sins of a homosexual one minute to save that person's soul, while going home and having to hide what they were watching on their computers every night from their wives. How many married Christians are fantasizing about another man or woman during their private time with their spouse?

And won't God judge these things too?

On the outside, these were respected Christian couples, well-known in their churches and community. But their private lives told a much different story.

Another young man, a new Christian, was trying to get away from the sexual sins of his past, and he asked me (online) if God would be ok with him and his wife experimenting with "toys" as a way to help him satisfy his cravings and get over them.

I told him I was raised in a church that believed this was wrong, but I strongly advised him to talk to his own pastor and study what the Bible says for himself.

I don't want to speak for @lonelysummer, but I think I understand where he's coming from. From the time I was a teen, one of my biggest questions became, "What's the difference between between confronting someone in order to save their soul and confronting a self-proclaimed Christian (because only God knows if they truly are) who is repeatedly guilty of habitual sin?"

And why do the ones with the secret sins get away with pointing their fingers at the ones who's sins are outward? The only difference is, one is observable, and the other is not. It's a lot like a young woman who is pregnant out of wedlock -- much is said to condemn and correct her, but usually not so much about the man who is the other part of the equation. It's just that her sin is much more noticeable.

I can admit I might be a bit jaded though, as I grew up watching people claim to be so close to God that they could apparently somehow point out everyone else's sins without anyone else knowing about, or no one was brave enough, to confront them about their own.

Again, I'm not meaning this as an argument at all. And I'm certainly not trying to defend homosexuality.

But the points that were brought up in these posts are something I think and pray about quite often.

What sexual sin does a married Christian couple commit? You do realize that a married couple between one man and one woman is appropriate to have sexual relations, but homosexuality can never be right in any content. So why are you trying to bring the context of the sex of God-approved married in the same manner as homosexuality? Are you married? Are you speaking from your own personal shortcomings?

You know that everyone has some kind of sexual sin. Wow!! I have a qestion for you

Do you think being tempted is a sin? And is a sexual temptation the only battle Christians have to fight?

If


THANK YOU!

I really appreciate that someone understands what I'm trying to say.

AND THANK YOU TWICE OVER.