Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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Locoponydirtman

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#521
#521
ForestGreenCook said:
Spiritual Israel (not the nation) is Jacob/Israel (Rom 9:11) showing that God's elect are not chosen based upon their works. Jacob's name was changed, by God, to be called Israel (Gen 32:28).
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There is no such delineation in scripture.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#522
#522
ForestGreenCook said:
Not depending upon your own entelect to glean the truth, might help. No one can understand the truths contained in the scriptures, unless the Holy Spirit within them reveals.
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Show that in scripture.
The scripture reveals God because according to John chapter one Christ equates himself to His word.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#523
#523
I find very unsavory that so many would rob from the sufficiency of scripture so that they can call those who reject their extra biblical interpretations, unregenerate.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#524
#524
The hubris of placing yourself above scripture and then claiming that its the Holy Spirit telling you these things is mind blowing. Then telling those who reject your extra Biblical interpretation that they are not regenerate to double down, is way far out.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
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Nov 21, 2020
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Locoponydirtman said:
Paul is not teaching that super natural interpretation supercedes the text of scripture.
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One cannot understand the spiritual things of God which the scriptures convey unless they have the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2:14

Jesus had to supernaturally open the understanding of men for them to understand the scriptures Lk 24:45

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Lydia had her heart opened supernaturally by God to understand what Paul preached Acts 16:14


14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

I see you in denial, I wont keep going back and forth with you.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
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Jul 3, 2015
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brightfame52 said:
Jesus had to supernaturally open the understanding of men for them to understand the scriptures Lk 24:45

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Lydia had her heart opened supernaturally by God to understand what Paul preached Acts 16:14
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Luke 24:27 + 31
:)
 
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CorrectiveLens

Banned
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Dec 30, 2020
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Nehemiah6 said:
There are many who claim that God does not desire the salvation of all human beings. But that is simply a lie of the devil. This one verse from Isaiah 45:22 refutes that idea: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. This is confirmed below in John 3:16,17.

"All the ends of the earth" encompasses the whole world of humanity. Therefore if God were electing people for salvation, He would elect everyone and save everyone. But that is not how God offers salvation to mankind. Instead God wants that the Gospel be preached in all the world and to "every creature". And when the Gospel is preached, those hearing the Gospel must also hear that (1) God now commands all men everywhere to repent and (2) God now commands all men everywhere to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. It is through repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ that sinners are saved from Hell (Acts 20:21).

At the same time God and Christ know that all men will not be saved, because many love darkness rather than light. So what we are seeing today is that evil is triumphing over good, and evil is increasing day by day, while that which is righteous is attacked, rejected and reviled.

Nonetheless, the true Gospel must continue to be propagated, and what it says is this (John 3:1-21;29-36 ). These are the words of Christ Himself as well as His forerunner John the Baptist. So these are the words of God.

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God...
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
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It is Christ who died for the whole world and wishes that all be saved, but the Father displays His justice and mercy by saving a select few and perfecting them through His Holy Spirit.
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
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Feb 10, 2022
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CorrectiveLens said:
It is Christ who died for the whole world and wishes that all be saved, but the Father displays His justice and mercy by saving a select few and perfecting them through His Holy Spirit.
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Please provide scriptural support.
 
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Papermonkey

Active member
#531
Dec 2, 2022
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brightfame52 said:
Im testifying to the Truth, and unfortunately you wont have it.
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In fairness many don't know what Biblical Exegesis entails.
It is true that it involves more than the notion the Bible proves the Bible is true.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/biblical-exegesis.html

''A variety of principles are generally used when seeking to produce good biblical exegesis. These include being grammatical, literal, historical, socio-cultural, and to synthesize Scripture with other relevant Scripture.''
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
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Jul 18, 2017
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CorrectiveLens said:
It is Christ who died for the whole world and wishes that all be saved, but the Father displays His justice and mercy by saving a select few and perfecting them through His Holy Spirit.
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The question is "On what grounds does the Father save a select few?" and the answer is found in Romans chapter 10. Those who call upon the name of the Lord and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, and those who do not obey the Gospel are not saved. IF ALL WOULD BELIEVE ALL WOULD BE SAVED.
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Nehemiah6 said:
The question is "On what grounds does the Father save a select few?" and the answer is found in Romans chapter 10. Those who call upon the name of the Lord and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, and those who do not obey the Gospel are not saved. IF ALL WOULD BELIEVE ALL WOULD BE SAVED.
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1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
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Nov 21, 2020
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Nehemiah6 said:
The question is "On what grounds does the Father save a select few?" and the answer is found in Romans chapter 10. Those who call upon the name of the Lord and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, and those who do not obey the Gospel are not saved. IF ALL WOULD BELIEVE ALL WOULD BE SAVED.
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Those who dont obey the Gospel are those who Christ didnt love nor die for. They dont obey because they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If Christ had layed down His life for them, they would believe and follow Him
 
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Papermonkey

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Dec 2, 2022
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brightfame52 said:
Those who dont obey the Gospel are those who Christ didnt love nor die for. They dont obey because they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If Christ had layed down His life for them, they would believe and follow Him
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Jesus taught that no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

Jesus taught in parables not all would understand so to be saved.

Paul said the natural mind cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are foolishness to him. Only the Holy Spirit can make that change of mind.

If all were meant to be saved God would not have to bestow his grace upon whom he chooses.
The whole worlds people would be saved. They wouldn't have to believe, they would be saved regardless.

However, that's not scripture. God referred to his elect.

That's related to Jesus teaching, no one comes to him unless the father calls them.

God calls whom he will.
And no one comes to Jesus unless God calls.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Papermonkey said:
And no one comes to Jesus unless God calls.
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And what makes anyone think that God EXCLUDES anyone, when Christ said this plainly: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up... And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Did Christ really say that He would draw all men to Himself because of His crucifixion? And does anyone imagine that the Father would be opposing the Son and the Holy Spirit (Rev 22:17) in this matter?

There is not a single translation which contradicts the King James Bible in John 12:32.
New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
New Living Translation
And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."
English Standard Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Berean Study Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”
New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
As for Me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to Myself."
International Standard Version
As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."
NET Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
When I have been lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people toward me."
Jubilee Bible 2000
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
King James 2000 Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
American King James Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
American Standard Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Darby Bible Translation
and I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me.
English Revised Version
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
Webster's Bible Translation
And I, if I shall be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
Weymouth New Testament
And I-- if I am lifted up from the earth--will draw all men to me."
World English Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Young's Literal Translation
and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#538
#538
Papermonkey said:
In fairness many don't know what Biblical Exegesis entails.
It is true that it involves more than the notion the Bible proves the Bible is true.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/biblical-exegesis.html

''A variety of principles are generally used when seeking to produce good biblical exegesis. These include being grammatical, literal, historical, socio-cultural, and to synthesize Scripture with other relevant Scripture.''
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The key word here is "exegesis" what we are facing here is isogesis. And that is the problem. There is no exegetical cause to impose the words "of the elect" to the passage in 1 John 2.
 
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John146

Senior Member
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Jan 13, 2016
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brightfame52 said:
Those who dont obey the Gospel are those who Christ didnt love nor die for. They dont obey because they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If Christ had layed down His life for them, they would believe and follow Him
Click to expand...
Who are "all men" referring to? The "all men" are different from those that believe.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
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Feb 10, 2022
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#540
brightfame52 said:
Those who dont obey the Gospel are those who Christ didnt love nor die for.
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I’ll stick with MLK Jr. who said above all else he wanted to be remembered as following the One (Jesus Christ) who loved His enemies so much He died for them.
 
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