Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#61
Sep 2, 2020
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#61
Runningman said:
In the Bible, there are examples where people were given exhortation to keep the faith, hold firmly to the faith, endure in the faith, etc. (1 Tim. 1:19, Heb. 4:14, Heb. 12:1-3, and many more.)

These exhortations about keeping the faith would not be given unless they were relevant and sound spiritual guidance. Nor would these words be given unless it were possible to not keep the faith.

That being said, falling away from the faith, abandoning the faith, is called apostasy and it's a real thing the Bible warns about.

If faith is a gift of God, it can be abandoned deliberately at the sole discretion of the apostate. To me, this creates a clear problem for the "faith as a gift" doctrine. Like I said, keeping the faith is something we should strive to keep so that we have not believed in vain per 1 Cor. 15:2.

Matt. 24
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Gal. 1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

2 Thess. 2
3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

1 Tim. 4
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
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amen wonderful post great read

“If faith is a gift of God, it can be abandoned deliberately at the sole discretion of the apostate. To me, this creates a clear problem for the "faith as a gift" doctrine.”

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gift is offered

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“Now the parable is this:

The seed is the word of God.

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a faith holds on even when it isn’t finished or perfect even before the fruits come
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#62
Jun 20, 2022
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#62
ForestGreenCook said:
Can you show me the scriptures that tell us to invite him into our hearts?
Click to expand...
Read this attachment.

We have Jesus knocking at the door of our hearts.

It then clearly says IF ANY PERSON OPENS THE DOOR Jesus comes inside our heart.

You saying Opening the Door to your heart IS NOT INVITING JESUS TO ENTER INTO IT?

Your question claims we don't ask Jesus into our hearts. Clearly Revelation 3 tells us You don't know what you claim at all.
 

Attachments

Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#64
Sep 2, 2020
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#64
ForestGreenCook said:
No! I am not, but good works is what I see you using, to gain eternal deliverance. So you have made God a liar.
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Your so opposed to good works you can’t really understand God grace and let it do it’s work

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, ( not just those Paul spoke to ) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,

and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods grace is when we start doing this and learning from Jesus the lord and becoming grateful for what he’s truly done

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to be like this group

“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not this group

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But this group

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭

Or this group

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
XavierJesusLovesIndia

XavierJesusLovesIndia

Banned
#65
Nov 26, 2021
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#65
This portion from Wiki makes it clear: "Augustine believed that one receives the Holy Spirit at their baptism, which produces salvation. However Augustine wanted to explain why some regenerate people fall away from the faith, even though both groups had the Holy Spirit. Thus Augustine concluded that some people are given a second gift of perseverance, which is only given to some regenerate people.[5]" So, Augustine held, Salvation!=(notequalto)Justification alone. Salvation=Justification+Perseverance. And both are Gifts of God.

And Hebrews 10:35-36 also teaches this:

"A Call to Persevere

"35So do not throw away your confidence; it holds a great reward. 36 You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised."
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#67
Feb 10, 2022
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#67
Pilgrimshope said:
3 man is created to have free Will and choose good he offers certain salvation and says choose life only because he says it does it matter
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Pilgrim, do me a favor and please clarify what you mean. Thanks brother.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#68
Jul 3, 2015
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#68
ForestGreenCook said:
I use the KJV to study from, but take notice that all of the translations you have given there is one common
thing about all of them. They all say "will come, or shall come", which means that none of them will not come.
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Did you notice also that NONE of them say what you claimed?
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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#71
Runningman said:
Matt. 24
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other
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I think you need to understand what this is actually meaning and saying ------

Matthew 24 is talking about the last days and you need to read the whole part of this to understand it ---your trying to take one piece of Scripture and you think you know what it is saying but it is not saying what you think or want it to say ------

Rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you in your understanding ===don't rely on your own thinking of what scripture means -----

The people who are turning away here are not true Christians ---they are professed Christians ------who are worldly and who are turning in their friends to the enemy -------

Matthew 24 AMP

9 “Then they will hand you over to [endure] tribulation, and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

10 At that time many will be offended and repelled [by their association with Me] and will fall away [from the One whom they should trust] and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another.

11 Many false prophets will appear and mislead many.

12 Because lawlessness is increased, the love of most people will grow cold.

13 But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved.

14 This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.


This is Barnes notes on this --Matthew 24:10

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Many shall be offended - See the notes at Matthew 5:29. Many shall stumble, fall, apostatize from a profession of religion. Many who "professed" to love me will then show that they had no "real" attachment to me; and in those trying times it will be seen that they knew nothing of genuine Christian love. See 1 John 2:19.
Shall betray one another - Those who thus apostatize from professed attachment to me will betray others who really love me. This they would do to secure their own safety, by revealing the names, habitations, or places of concealment of others.

Shall hate one another - Not that real Christians would do this, but those who had professed to be such would then show that they were not his true followers, and would hate one another. Luke adds that they should be betrayed "by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends," Luke 21:16. They would break over the most tender ties to surrender Christians to punishment. So great would be their hatred of Christianity, that it would overcome all the natural endearments of kindred and home. This, in the persecutions of Christians, has often occurred, and nothing shows more fully the deep and deadly hatred of the human heart to the gospel. Compare the notes at Matthew 10:21.
 
wattie

wattie

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#72
Feb 24, 2009
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#72
studentoftheword said:


Your ignorance of not understanding what Jesus did for us is greatly showing here ------Apart from Jesus you are doomed to HELL

So
OH Yes it does matter -----Jesus paid what you deserve ------you go to hell now by Rejecting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour as it was HE who paid the sin debt for all people for all time ----without receiving Jesus in your Heart you are doomed ---to HELL

Sin was in play before Jesus -----All of us were doomed to Hell because we are ALL SINNERS ----Without God in you your still a SINNER -----and doomed to Hell ------
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I think Forest green would have believed in Jesus as God..that He died and rose again etc...

But I think he says he was saved before that happened.

So I wouldn't say he doesn't have the Holy Spirit indwelling his soul. I wouldn't agree with being saved before belief.. but if he did believe.. then that's enough.
 
brighthouse98

brighthouse98

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Apr 16, 2015
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#73
Acts 2:21 makes this very clear!! ALL means all!
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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#74
oyster67 said:
Righteousness is not automatically imputed to anyone.
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And the opportunity to come to Jesus is not denied to anyone.
Salvation is available to any who will call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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#75
Ep. 2
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience

3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, by grace you have been saved

6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
 
R

Runningman

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#76
Mar 4, 2020
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#76
studentoftheword said:
I think you need to understand what this is actually meaning and saying ------

Matthew 24 is talking about the last days and you need to read the whole part of this to understand it ---your trying to take one piece of Scripture and you think you know what it is saying but it is not saying what you think or want it to say ------

Rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you in your understanding ===don't rely on your own thinking of what scripture means -----

The people who are turning away here are not true Christians ---they are professed Christians ------who are worldly and who are turning in their friends to the enemy -------

Matthew 24 AMP

9 “Then they will hand you over to [endure] tribulation, and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

10 At that time many will be offended and repelled [by their association with Me] and will fall away [from the One whom they should trust] and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another.

11 Many false prophets will appear and mislead many.

12 Because lawlessness is increased, the love of most people will grow cold.

13 But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved.

14 This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.


This is Barnes notes on this --Matthew 24:10

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Many shall be offended - See the notes at Matthew 5:29. Many shall stumble, fall, apostatize from a profession of religion. Many who "professed" to love me will then show that they had no "real" attachment to me; and in those trying times it will be seen that they knew nothing of genuine Christian love. See 1 John 2:19.
Shall betray one another - Those who thus apostatize from professed attachment to me will betray others who really love me. This they would do to secure their own safety, by revealing the names, habitations, or places of concealment of others.

Shall hate one another - Not that real Christians would do this, but those who had professed to be such would then show that they were not his true followers, and would hate one another. Luke adds that they should be betrayed "by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends," Luke 21:16. They would break over the most tender ties to surrender Christians to punishment. So great would be their hatred of Christianity, that it would overcome all the natural endearments of kindred and home. This, in the persecutions of Christians, has often occurred, and nothing shows more fully the deep and deadly hatred of the human heart to the gospel. Compare the notes at Matthew 10:21.
Click to expand...
yes and we're in the "last days" now and have been for quite a long time. That was part of Peter's sermon in Acts 2.

Below, Peter is explaining they aren't drunk, but are part of the last days prophecy where God pours out His Spirit.

Acts 2
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#77
NOV25 said:
Ep. 2
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience

3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, by grace you have been saved

6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Click to expand...

From Ephesians 2:4-7

Ephesians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:10
:)
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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#78
#78
Cameron143 said:
This is the very reason that if I suspect someone will betray me I don't give morsels but serve a 4 course meal. Many times they will become sleepy afterwards and take a nap, foiling their plans.
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Especially a turkey dinner
 
NOV25

NOV25

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#80
Nov 23, 2019
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#80
"God has nothing to do with it, let's be perfectly frank about it"

 
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