Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

I use the KJV to study from, but take notice that all of the translations you have given there is one common thing about all of them. They all say "will come, or shall come", which means that none of them will not come.

It is real plain, in John 6:37, that all that God gave him, he would not lose any of them, but will raise them all up at the last day.

Is it your understanding that God gave all of mankind to Jesus, and he will not lose any of mankind, but will raise all of mankind up at the last day ?

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

oyster67 said:

Can you point out in my post where I said that I do not believe?

oyster67 · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

The problem is that you do believe... in a false doctrine. Tell us once and for all, HAVE YOU INVITED JESUS INTO YOU HEART?

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

oyster67 said:

We cannot believe in the things of the Spirit until we have been quickened to the new spiritual life, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Eph 2:1-5). After we have been born again, and are able to believe the things of the Spirit, Jesus righteousness is imputed to us.

Cameron143 · Dec 15, 2022

Understanding the means and mechanisms of salvation are not necessary for salvation. Making functional judgments concerning others is prudent but making final judgments are impossible since we cannot see into the hearts of others.
There is only one judge with both the authority and ability to pronounce the estate of the soul.
I'm all for lively debate as we learn new arguments and reinforce others. But to make determination as to someone's relationship with God seems a bit extreme.

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

oyster67 said:

Why would I invite him into my heart, when he is already there? You have been indoctrinated with the idea that you have to invite Jesus into your heart to be saved eternally, and that just is not worded in the scriptures.

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I very much do know what Jesus accomplished on the cross, but I do not believe that you do. Jesus did not just try to save those that he died for, but did in fact save them.

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Can you show me the scriptures that tell us to invite him into our hearts?

oyster67 · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

That is the Gospel.
Galatians 1:9
“As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

ForestGreenCook · Dec 15, 2022

oyster67 said:

So show me the scripture that actually says to invite him into your heart to be saved eternally.

Runningman · Dec 15, 2022

studentoftheword said:

I say ---If your saved and have the Holy Spirit in you ----then you need to ask big time the Holy Spirit to help you understand who gives us the Faith and why we can't choose to have faith or not -----

John 6:44
Amplified Bible
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

The Greek word for Draw here

helkó: to drag

Usage: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.
HELPS Word-studies
1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.

So we see that no PERSON can go on their own desire to God ------God has to draw the Person ----God"s Power gives the person the desire to open their Bible and read His word --or to go to Church to hear the Word ----

God opens the persons heart ------Saving Faith is then inbirthed in the Person by hearing the Word ---WHO IS GOD THE SON ------you have no say in whether you want the Faith or not ---your getting it regardless from Hearing the WORD ----your Getting Faith in you From God The Son Who is the Word -----

-----Faith is a gift from God ----it is not ever given to ourselves by ourselves -----

Now what you can decide to do is to not accept the Word to act on it ------The saving Faith is there --you didn't put it there -----and it stays there ------God drew you by opening up your heart to desire to know who God is -----

You can now choose Not to ACT on the Free Gift of your Saving Faith---- Or ----you can choose To Act on your Saving faith ----that is your choice -----your Faith has be inbirthed in you like it or not -----

So some will accept to act on their Faith in Jesus and some will Choose Not to -------

this is how you get saved ---IF YOU DO THIS ----IF YOU DON"T DO THIS your NOT SAVED ------

it says Acknowledge AND CONFESS with your LIPS ------when you open your mouth and say and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord ---you are in Fact SPEAKING acting on your Saving Faith -----Faith always requires ACTION ----speaking is your action ------you choose to Speak your Faith or not to -------it has nothing to do with your inbirthed faith ---you had no part in getting that --------your choosing to accept or reject the Action of God's faith ------

Romans 10:9

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

When your born you are born with intellectual faith ------it is not from us ---Faith always comes from God

So we may not exactly agree about whether faith is a gift or not.

What matters is that we keep the faith. In your view, if faith is a gift, would God prevent one from throwing that gift away?

Runningman · Dec 15, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

I agree with that PH.

oyster67 · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

studentoftheword · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

You don't invite Jesus into your Heart ------Faith always receives -----so you can have a choice to receive or reject Jesus in your heart ------we have free will to do that ---God forces no one to receive His Son as their Lord and saviour ---you send yourself to doom by rejecting what Jesus did on the Cross ----

John 1

9 There it was—the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person.

10 He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].

11 He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own—His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.

12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name—

People need to get this -------

God's Grace made Salvation AVAILABLE to all people --------God's Faith Receives ------what His Grace has made Available to us ------Faith ALWAYS RECEIVES ----accepts ---welcomes -------we have a choice to either receive -----accept or welcome Jesus into our hearts ---or reject doing that -----

Greek word for RECEIVE

Strong's Concordance

dechomai: to receive

Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.

1209 déxomai – properly, to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation (1 Thes 2:13) and thoughts (Eph 6:17).

1209/dexomai ("warmly receptive, welcoming") means receive with "ready reception what is offered" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 7), i.e. "welcome with appropriate reception"

John146 · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Did the disciples (without the Holy Spirit) have any knowledge of the teachings of Jesus before the cross? Were they clueless about everything?

oyster67 · Dec 15, 2022

We must repent of our sins and call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

studentoftheword · Dec 15, 2022

Runningman said:

If your drawn by God and you start listening to His Word ------Faith is being inbirthed in you -------Faith comes by hearing the Word of God -----so if you have listened to the Word you have some Saving Faith in you --you can choose to stop hearing the Word or turn from the Word and your Faith in Jesus will be limited ---the more your in the Word the More your Faith will Grow in Jesus ------who Is the Word

From Strongs

The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

God has allotted to each a measure of faith (4102/pistis)"

Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

.faith is spiritual, the gift of God . . . you cannot command faith at will, faith is always something that is given-inwrought by God; . . . therefore, if you want to be a man of faith, it will always be the result of becoming a certain type of person" (M. Lloyd Jones, Romans, Ro 4:18-25).

o "the principle of faith (operating in) you" – not "your faith" in the sense that faith is ever generated by the recipient.

Faith always comes from God and involves His revelation therefore faith is beyond belief!

Runningman · Dec 15, 2022

studentoftheword said:

In the Bible, there are examples where people were given exhortation to keep the faith, hold firmly to the faith, endure in the faith, etc. (1 Tim. 1:19, Heb. 4:14, Heb. 12:1-3, and many more.)

These exhortations about keeping the faith would not be given unless they were relevant and sound spiritual guidance. Nor would these words be given unless it were possible to not keep the faith.

That being said, falling away from the faith, abandoning the faith, is called apostasy and it's a real thing the Bible warns about.

If faith is a gift of God, it can be abandoned deliberately at the sole discretion of the apostate. To me, this creates a clear problem for the "faith as a gift" doctrine. Like I said, keeping the faith is something we should strive to keep so that we have not believed in vain per 1 Cor. 15:2.

Matt. 24
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Gal. 1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

2 Thess. 2
3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

1 Tim. 4
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · Dec 15, 2022

I believe Faith is a Gift of God. And Perseverance is another Gift of God. If we persistently pray for it, we will receive it.

Out of the "TULIP" points of Calvinism, "P" stands for perseverance. But Calvin meant something different by it: namely, OSAS.

St. Augustine, a Great Early Christian Theologian respected by multiple denominations, also taught Perseverance, but differently.

"Augustine defined perseverance as gift by which one perseveres up to the end of their lives, if a person dies as a believer they had been given the gift, but if one dies as an unbeliever, even if he used to once believe, he did not have this gift given. Augustine believed that the gift can be received through prayer, but when one person has the gift, they can't lose it.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_of_perseverance

This is what he wrote: "Chapter 9.— When Perseverance is Granted to a Person, He Cannot But Persevere.
"Now, moreover, when the saints say, Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, Matthew 6:13 what do they pray for but that they may persevere in holiness? For, assuredly, when that gift of God is granted to them — which is sufficiently plainly shown to be God's gift, since it is asked of Him — that gift of God, then, being granted to them that they may not be led into temptation, none of the saints fails to keep his perseverance in holiness even to the end. For there is not any one who ceases to persevere in the Christian purpose unless he is first of all led into temptation. If, therefore, it be granted to him according to his prayer that he may not be led, certainly by the gift of God he persists in that sanctification which by the gift of God he has received." https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15122.htm

Praying the Lord's Prayer every day will help us gain the Gift of Perseverance. The Lord taught in the Gospel what we persistently ask for will be granted by God, and the same applies to this imo.

God Bless.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 15, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

“He is already in me, and I in him.”

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh

in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭

Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

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