Joel & Victoria Osteen: This Blew My Mind

It still boggles my mind that someone who offers coffee can even qualify for disfellowship but readily admit I'm still new to disfellowshipping and don't know all the nuances. But I'm also fascinated that a new word may have been coined according to PennEd so we may have witnessed etymological history.

“I refuse to deal with such people until they change the behavior”

“But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You should consider how Jesus is on the gospel , and how the Pharisees he’s constantly rebuking are towards “ sinners “ if Jesus refused to deal with people until after they become righteous no one would ever change and hear his call to repentance

“And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what saves the sinners his mercy and forebearance towards them and his fellowship with them is the very thing that corrects thier behaviors as the follow and learn from him and learn to trust in and believe firmly

if we believe ourselves to be righteous we need to look into the gospel and see if his teachings are reflected in our own behavior towards other imperfect people. If we try to judge everyone unworthy we’ve missed it completely but we want to speak the gospel to them so they will hear his call to repentance

If we’re only willing to associate with those we deem righteous already we’re really missing it badly

“Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a notice the Pharisees are always standing back and peering at all the “ sinners “ and the sinners are always flocking in droves to hear and follow the lord Jesus ?

The woman was a sinner it says plainly but the Pharisee was shocked that Jesus would allow “ such a woman this sinnner” to touch him

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we’re looking at sin in others and judging them by it it’s because we aren’t letting the light shine on us first

dear brother , consider how Jesus treated known sinners and how Pharisees looked down thier noses at them and who actually came to Jesus and who stayed away from Him and accused the sinners he was accepting so he could heal them and lead them to repentance and righteousness

We're not talking about others.

We're talking about going to church and worshipping God.

None of that is about dealing with the christian brother who is exhibiting bad but very human characteristics that should be corrected

yes I suppose each of us individual Christian’s should judge one another unworthy of our company and cast them out until they “ learn thier lesson and become worthy of our company again “ because we ourselves perceive some “ sin “ in them

a there’s a reason that sinners flock to Jesus and self righteous stand back and judge him for associating with those “ filthy wretches”

We aren’t sinners they are we’re worthy and they aren’t Jesus won’t accept us unless we first become sinless so we need to make sure to cast them out if we personally perceive a sin in them

“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The church represents Jesus on this earth he came to call all the sinners near to him and because of that the self righteous scoffed and mocked and stayed away from him.

Im not sure you see the issue hat needs to be repented of and it could be because your looking at the sinners o are trying to come to church and hear Jesus and fellowship with his children and learn to repent of the things they need to repent of

zone of the most important is to not see yourself as worthy enough for Jesus , and then look for others who aren’t worthy

That’s necessary , only sinners who accept they are sinners will ever come to a place of repentance knowing “ I need to repent “ and if we drove them away “ for thier own good “ until they again meet our high standard “ all we are doing is showing ourselves not to be in Christ

So you think its better to tollerate toxic and or abusive behavior, or its better to set up some good healthy boundaries for the promotion of growth?

Open up conversation with you. Which is always the goal.

i think it’s better for us all to accept the truth that we’re in the same boat as those we try to judge unworthy of Jesus and stop judging each other

“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think brother you have the order backwards is all we don’t come to God after we’ve become right we come to Jesus because we have finally realized we’re wrong and the only way for us to be saved is to truly believe in him and hear what he has to say about everything after all it’s only he who can give eternal life and notice who he welcomes and pulls close and who he constantly rebukes and corrects

a what I’m saying is IF you are a church leader at your church a pastor , elder ect someone with authority in your small church group then you would want to pull the person aside and have a discussion with them share some scripture with them about “ being divisive “ really discuss with them because you care about the person and want to make the. Aware that what they are doing isn’t acceptable

aid they accept it and repent the issue is solved and you’ve won a brother over. If they just keep on , then you’d want to get a couple other elders or pastor maybe one of the persons closest friends in the church and again privately take him aside and do the same thing with him you and the others trying to our shade him by the lord word nd your care for them explain why it’s not acceptable ect

air they repent you’ve solved the issue and won your brother over led them to repentance at that point again if this is even your role being the head or authority ofnthe church group your going to want to get together with the rest of the leaders d make a decision bout it prayerfully and with consideration against the gospel

what you have read there is not for each person to be casting people out of the church there’s a very explained process it’s even patterned in the law “ by two or three witnesses every matter shall be established”



Its not for one brother to be accusing and excommunicating another that’s not going to help and infact is also going to divide e church much worse because everyone isn’t going to feel like you do decisions like that are why churches had ordered leadership who are proven worthy to make such judgements over the flock that they labored to gather together

all im saying brother is consider what the gospel says about judging people when you aren’t worthy either without Jesus mercy towards you notice don’t want to judge someone who’s struggling or you perceive isn’t worthy because of some behavior you noticed

but if you don’t want to deal with any certain person don’t , you know ? Just realize that’s not how Jesus is

While i agree with most of what you are saying. In situations lime this where there is no elder or pastor with authority to call out and correct. We have to set boundaries. Setting boundaries does not disqualify someone from Jesus or the faith. It just means. Hey, until you can manage yourself in an acceptable way, Im not dealing with you.

So you think its better to tollerate toxic and or abusive behavior, or its better to set up some good healthy boundaries for the promotion of growth?

K Hagin had three terminal diseases and during his 17 month bedridden ordeal, he stood on Mk 11:23-24 and was healed of all three, by faith in the Word of God. Top surgeons at the Mayo clinic told him he had to die.

These comments brought this scripture to mind. Don't know why.

Acts 18:14 And when Paul was now about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdness, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:

I dont understand this post.
What are you implying that I dont understand?

You mean going to a church building and singing with our hands raised ? Is that worshipping God or does it sound more like this ?

“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:11, 14, 16-19‬ ‭

if it’s not about loving others in deed and truth there’s something wrong with the church we’re attending and singing our songs and lifting our hands

“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If Hagin's word of faith teaching is true, why did he even get sick in the first place? If perfect health is guaranteed in the atonement; if all you have to do is make prayer declarations or positive confessions, why did Hagin get sick?

We can worship God anywhere at any time.

But sometimes the presence of Christians helps us and others to Worship God. You know, like church.

Why did he get sick...how many churches preach on Isa 53 or even believe Jesus 'surely' took our pains, sorrows and by His stripes/lashes we are healed" How many have elders or simply believers go out laying hands on the sick 'and they will recover'?
Why did he get sick...he was born with health problems and at age 15 he was laying paralyzed on his sickbed for 17mos, everyone gave up on him. Thank God he had the Bible next to his bed and found Mk 11:23-24 that he believed on and was completely healed of 3 fatal diseases. He went on to preach 60+ yrs.

Why did Benny Hinn get COVID? He wasn't born with COVID. Kenneth Copeland pronounced COVID over, twice. So how did Hinn end up with COVID?