Joel & Victoria Osteen: This Blew My Mind
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You mean going to a church building and singing with our hands raised ? Is that worshipping God or does it sound more like this ?
“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
1 John 3:11, 14, 16-19
if it’s not about loving others in deed and truth there’s something wrong with the church we’re attending and singing our songs and lifting our hands
“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
Matthew 15:8-9 KJV
“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
1 John 3:11, 14, 16-19
if it’s not about loving others in deed and truth there’s something wrong with the church we’re attending and singing our songs and lifting our hands
“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
Matthew 15:8-9 KJV
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yes I suppose each of us individual Christian’s should judge one another unworthy of our company and cast them out until they “ learn thier lesson and become worthy of our company again “ because we ourselves perceive some “ sin “ in them
a there’s a reason that sinners flock to Jesus and self righteous stand back and judge him for associating with those “ filthy wretches”
We aren’t sinners they are we’re worthy and they aren’t Jesus won’t accept us unless we first become sinless so we need to make sure to cast them out if we personally perceive a sin in them
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
The church represents Jesus on this earth he came to call all the sinners near to him and because of that the self righteous scoffed and mocked and stayed away from him.
Im not sure you see the issue hat needs to be repented of and it could be because your looking at the sinners o are trying to come to church and hear Jesus and fellowship with his children and learn to repent of the things they need to repent of
zone of the most important is to not see yourself as worthy enough for Jesus , and then look for others who aren’t worthy
That’s necessary , only sinners who accept they are sinners will ever come to a place of repentance knowing “ I need to repent “ and if we drove them away “ for thier own good “ until they again meet our high standard “ all we are doing is showing ourselves not to be in Christ
a there’s a reason that sinners flock to Jesus and self righteous stand back and judge him for associating with those “ filthy wretches”
We aren’t sinners they are we’re worthy and they aren’t Jesus won’t accept us unless we first become sinless so we need to make sure to cast them out if we personally perceive a sin in them
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
The church represents Jesus on this earth he came to call all the sinners near to him and because of that the self righteous scoffed and mocked and stayed away from him.
Im not sure you see the issue hat needs to be repented of and it could be because your looking at the sinners o are trying to come to church and hear Jesus and fellowship with his children and learn to repent of the things they need to repent of
zone of the most important is to not see yourself as worthy enough for Jesus , and then look for others who aren’t worthy
That’s necessary , only sinners who accept they are sinners will ever come to a place of repentance knowing “ I need to repent “ and if we drove them away “ for thier own good “ until they again meet our high standard “ all we are doing is showing ourselves not to be in Christ
i think it’s better for us all to accept the truth that we’re in the same boat as those we try to judge unworthy of Jesus and stop judging each other
“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12 KJV
“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
Romans 3:9-10 KJV
“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.”
Galatians 3:22 KJV
“to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
Romans 3:26 KJV
I think brother you have the order backwards is all we don’t come to God after we’ve become right we come to Jesus because we have finally realized we’re wrong and the only way for us to be saved is to truly believe in him and hear what he has to say about everything after all it’s only he who can give eternal life and notice who he welcomes and pulls close and who he constantly rebukes and corrects
a what I’m saying is IF you are a church leader at your church a pastor , elder ect someone with authority in your small church group then you would want to pull the person aside and have a discussion with them share some scripture with them about “ being divisive “ really discuss with them because you care about the person and want to make the. Aware that what they are doing isn’t acceptable
aid they accept it and repent the issue is solved and you’ve won a brother over. If they just keep on , then you’d want to get a couple other elders or pastor maybe one of the persons closest friends in the church and again privately take him aside and do the same thing with him you and the others trying to our shade him by the lord word nd your care for them explain why it’s not acceptable ect
air they repent you’ve solved the issue and won your brother over led them to repentance at that point again if this is even your role being the head or authority ofnthe church group your going to want to get together with the rest of the leaders d make a decision bout it prayerfully and with consideration against the gospel
what you have read there is not for each person to be casting people out of the church there’s a very explained process it’s even patterned in the law “ by two or three witnesses every matter shall be established”
Its not for one brother to be accusing and excommunicating another that’s not going to help and infact is also going to divide e church much worse because everyone isn’t going to feel like you do decisions like that are why churches had ordered leadership who are proven worthy to make such judgements over the flock that they labored to gather together
all im saying brother is consider what the gospel says about judging people when you aren’t worthy either without Jesus mercy towards you notice don’t want to judge someone who’s struggling or you perceive isn’t worthy because of some behavior you noticed
but if you don’t want to deal with any certain person don’t , you know ? Just realize that’s not how Jesus is
“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12 KJV
“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
Romans 3:9-10 KJV
“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.”
Galatians 3:22 KJV
“to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
Romans 3:26 KJV
I think brother you have the order backwards is all we don’t come to God after we’ve become right we come to Jesus because we have finally realized we’re wrong and the only way for us to be saved is to truly believe in him and hear what he has to say about everything after all it’s only he who can give eternal life and notice who he welcomes and pulls close and who he constantly rebukes and corrects
a what I’m saying is IF you are a church leader at your church a pastor , elder ect someone with authority in your small church group then you would want to pull the person aside and have a discussion with them share some scripture with them about “ being divisive “ really discuss with them because you care about the person and want to make the. Aware that what they are doing isn’t acceptable
aid they accept it and repent the issue is solved and you’ve won a brother over. If they just keep on , then you’d want to get a couple other elders or pastor maybe one of the persons closest friends in the church and again privately take him aside and do the same thing with him you and the others trying to our shade him by the lord word nd your care for them explain why it’s not acceptable ect
air they repent you’ve solved the issue and won your brother over led them to repentance at that point again if this is even your role being the head or authority ofnthe church group your going to want to get together with the rest of the leaders d make a decision bout it prayerfully and with consideration against the gospel
what you have read there is not for each person to be casting people out of the church there’s a very explained process it’s even patterned in the law “ by two or three witnesses every matter shall be established”
Its not for one brother to be accusing and excommunicating another that’s not going to help and infact is also going to divide e church much worse because everyone isn’t going to feel like you do decisions like that are why churches had ordered leadership who are proven worthy to make such judgements over the flock that they labored to gather together
all im saying brother is consider what the gospel says about judging people when you aren’t worthy either without Jesus mercy towards you notice don’t want to judge someone who’s struggling or you perceive isn’t worthy because of some behavior you noticed
but if you don’t want to deal with any certain person don’t , you know ? Just realize that’s not how Jesus is
L
While i agree with most of what you are saying. In situations lime this where there is no elder or pastor with authority to call out and correct. We have to set boundaries. Setting boundaries does not disqualify someone from Jesus or the faith. It just means. Hey, until you can manage yourself in an acceptable way, Im not dealing with you.
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Right brother I’m saying
“Hey, until you can manage yourself in an acceptable way, Im not dealing with you”
thats not a reflection of Jesus Christ. If he did that no one would ever come to him because everyone has issues with sin and how they behave
at he thing that solves that is when a broken person comes close to Jesus and realizes “ he still loves me enough to suffer and die “
a you as a Christian are a reflection to the world of Jesus and he’s not like that is what I’m saying and the proof is just look in the gospel who did Jesus embrace and fellowship with ? And who did he rebuke? And also who came running to Jesus to listen to him ? And who stood back away from him and pointed at the sinners ?
Its not for me to correct you I’m just offering an alternate thought for you to consider
anyways I’m not saying you don’t have a point in there that I agree with I’m just thinking the order is a bit mixed up in your thought about it
a broken and contrite people respond to savior when we start looking at our own self and our own flaws honestly compared to the gospel it has a way of humbling us mightily when we look at others who are coming fro the same place we once came from even as we’ve grown a lot and our behavior is much better we have to not forget that “ we were also cleansed from our pat sins “ they can be also but not if we cast them out of our presence we’re supposed to share the gospel with them we can’t if we refuse to associate with them
a church building or group has a leader even this forum has an authority that makes decisions bout who can be here it’s not for the members but for the authority
“Hey, until you can manage yourself in an acceptable way, Im not dealing with you”
thats not a reflection of Jesus Christ. If he did that no one would ever come to him because everyone has issues with sin and how they behave
at he thing that solves that is when a broken person comes close to Jesus and realizes “ he still loves me enough to suffer and die “
a you as a Christian are a reflection to the world of Jesus and he’s not like that is what I’m saying and the proof is just look in the gospel who did Jesus embrace and fellowship with ? And who did he rebuke? And also who came running to Jesus to listen to him ? And who stood back away from him and pointed at the sinners ?
Its not for me to correct you I’m just offering an alternate thought for you to consider
anyways I’m not saying you don’t have a point in there that I agree with I’m just thinking the order is a bit mixed up in your thought about it
a broken and contrite people respond to savior when we start looking at our own self and our own flaws honestly compared to the gospel it has a way of humbling us mightily when we look at others who are coming fro the same place we once came from even as we’ve grown a lot and our behavior is much better we have to not forget that “ we were also cleansed from our pat sins “ they can be also but not if we cast them out of our presence we’re supposed to share the gospel with them we can’t if we refuse to associate with them
a church building or group has a leader even this forum has an authority that makes decisions bout who can be here it’s not for the members but for the authority
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Sometimes I wonder if throwing an Op into left field isn't the same thing as gaslighting.
Here's the Op:
Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the useless deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
While I don't always agree with ResidentAlien, I do this time.
Such people should be exposed for the frauds they are. We also need to do some repeating of these things because some still follow them.
One only needs to see the Osteen's fruits to know them, just as Jesus says.
Here's the Op:
Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the useless deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
While I don't always agree with ResidentAlien, I do this time.
Such people should be exposed for the frauds they are. We also need to do some repeating of these things because some still follow them.
One only needs to see the Osteen's fruits to know them, just as Jesus says.
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That one made me grin.
Basically Gallio was saying, "Look guys, if this was something where you could prove somebody had done something objectively evil I would hear you out. But I ain't putting up with this junk. Y'all sort this one out yourselves."
And after 13 pages, that's about the long and short of it on this matter.
Basically Gallio was saying, "Look guys, if this was something where you could prove somebody had done something objectively evil I would hear you out. But I ain't putting up with this junk. Y'all sort this one out yourselves."
And after 13 pages, that's about the long and short of it on this matter.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 7:6-7
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Hebrews 7:6-7
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Why did he get sick...how many churches preach on Isa 53 or even believe Jesus 'surely' took our pains, sorrows and by His stripes/lashes we are healed" How many have elders or simply believers go out laying hands on the sick 'and they will recover'?
Why did he get sick...he was born with health problems and at age 15 he was laying paralyzed on his sickbed for 17mos, everyone gave up on him. Thank God he had the Bible next to his bed and found Mk 11:23-24 that he believed on and was completely healed of 3 fatal diseases. He went on to preach 60+ yrs.
Why did he get sick...he was born with health problems and at age 15 he was laying paralyzed on his sickbed for 17mos, everyone gave up on him. Thank God he had the Bible next to his bed and found Mk 11:23-24 that he believed on and was completely healed of 3 fatal diseases. He went on to preach 60+ yrs.
Yeah what I was saying was is worshipping God our singing and raising hands in a group or alone ? Is that worshipping God ?
Or is it worshipping God when you love other people in your actions ?
I said nothing about “ where “ we worship or whether with a group
We worship God by how we live our lives is the point not by where we attend church buildings or whether we sing and lift our hands it’s about whether we extend a helping hand to others in his name through our life
Or is it worshipping God when you love other people in your actions ?
I said nothing about “ where “ we worship or whether with a group
We worship God by how we live our lives is the point not by where we attend church buildings or whether we sing and lift our hands it’s about whether we extend a helping hand to others in his name through our life