Church Doctrine VS. God's Word

amen !! to this for certain

“When we take all of the Bible into consideration it seems that overall God is loving and merciful and benevolent”

he is always and has been good and merciful in times it seems he isn’t it was this

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s the veil over the law to see the true God we have to believe this

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel of Jesus Christ is our faith and he’s always been the same

You need to rightly divide the salvation scriptures. According to Greek translation salvation=a deliverance, saved=delivered, save=deliver. Your comments referring to save scriptures are actually deliverances a born again person receives as he sojourns here in this world.

Baptism delivers a born again person from their guilty conscience. The only means of a person being delivered eternally is by having their sins atoned for on the cross by Jesus's death. All other salvation (deliverances) scriptures are referring to deliverance that the born again person receives as they sojourn here in this world.

Are you sure you are not JW from Texas? ... can't be I spose he was out and out mid-acts-dispy. I used to value his posts though

Yes, yes quote the apostles to the circumcision. That's who they were ministering to. This was a decision which they themselves made by the way. The Jerusalem crowd were to go to the circumcision while Paul was to go to the Gentiles.

Paul had revelations they never had, he fulfilled the words of Jesus when He said "I have much more to teach you but you are not ready for it, when the Holy Spirit is come He will lead you into all truth." God did not send Paul to baptise but to teach the unsearchable riches of Christ.

Dont forget that the Lors chastises who he loves. And when we sin we receive that chastisement. So its possible that we may take many or few stripes in this life as the Lord corrects us and drives us to repentance when ever we sin.

Not that it is what that particular passage of scripture is about. Just throwing in a thought.

Martin Luther, in deed and most assuredly was baptized, And taught baptism, and baptized others.

do you count christening after the manner of Roman Catholicism as baptism?

Lutherans do not see baptism or the Eucharist or any of the sacraments the same way the Romanists do.
Harken back to the reformation and read what was written. Luther and Melanchthon wrote prolific volumes. I will not argue them with someone who dont even believe what os written scripture.

The scripture says nothing about sprinkling babies to make them christian

Paul's dispute with Peter concerned whether requirements of the OT law carried over into the NT. (Gal. 2) It had nothing to do with the NT command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin. Paul actually mentions that he was crucified with Christ during the exchange. (verse 20) When did this occur? See Paul's explanation of when this takes place: Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Those who are planted together in the likeness of his death have been crucified with him. (Rom. 6:3-6) If you will recall scripture references when Paul was crucified with Jesus. This occurred when Ananias instructed Paul to get baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16)

Also, all apostles preached the same gospel according to Paul himself:

"Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed." (Gal 1:21-23) This truth is also confirmed by Paul's actions in Acts 19:1-6.

Another scripture that makes this point is found in 1 Corinthians: “For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.” 1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:9-11‬

Paul's comment can not pertain to baptism not being necessary. Many scriptures penned by him speak of the exact opposite being true. However, something scripture clearly references is the distribution by God of specific ministry responsibilities to individuals. No one is tasked with doing it all. Notice the concept in operation concerning the baptism of Crispus and those of his household:

Consider Paul mentions Crispus by name as one of those that he did personally baptize. (1 Cor. 1:14) The circumstances around the baptism of Crispus gives insight. The scripture reference is Acts 18:6-10. The record shows that Crispus and ALL of those of his household and MANY Corinthians believed Paul's message and were baptized. (verse 8) This verse alone confirms Paul’s message included the need to be baptized. So of the entire group, the chief ruler of the synagogue (Crispus) was the only one that Paul actually baptized himself. (see 1 Cor. 1:14) Clearly, someone else was with Paul and performed the other water baptisms. Further it should be noted that on that very night the Lord gave Paul a vision. He told him to continue speaking/sharing the message without fear. (Acts 18:9-10)

Only you mentioned that.
Keep to the topic at hand. I'm not interested in obfuscation, or distraction.

Paul preached the same gospel message to both the Jews and the Gentiles. Paul was instructed to preach to the Jew first. After their continued rejection he was sent primarily to the Gentiles. (Greek)

Acts 18:4-11
4 And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. (Gentiles)
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

When Paul met the disciples at Ephesus whom he asked "did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" and they replied in the negative he asked "into what were you baptised then?" they say "John"
Then said "John verily baptised with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus"

When they heard this they were baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus and when Paul had laid his hands upon them the Holy Ghost came upon them and they spake with other tongues and prophesied.

They were baptised into Jesus .

The Baptiser himself taught "I baptise you with water but One cometh after me who is greater than I, He will baptise you with the Holy Ghost and fire"

John was the last OT prophet. He belongs to the OT.

I think Martin Luther is on topic ... he was sprinkled not baptised. ... deal with it

The crux of the argument is "is salvation conferred upon any by water baptism?" the answer is no.

For a thousand years or so there was no scriptural baptism in the church ... there were however christians

None of the reformers were baptised ... only sprinkled as babes.

The following scriptures may help to clear up your misunderstanding about John the Baptist being part of the OT: "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luke 16:16)

"The law and the prophets were until John - The law and the prophets continued to be the sole teachers until John came, who first began to proclaim the glad tidings of the kingdom of God:" Adam Clarke's Commentary


Mark 1:1-5 clarifies that John the Baptist was a NT prophet who began preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ: "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

As referenced in Luke 24:47, Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. This happened on the Day of Pentecost when Peter said everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission sin, (water) and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is when water baptism was begun in the name of the Lord Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection.

Confirmation that being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism is seen in (Acts 2:38; 8:12-18, 10:47-48)

If you notice in Acts 19: 1-6, it was after Paul baptized the group in the name of the Lord Jesus (water) that he then laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.